BMW V12 Project
- Thread starter cribbj
- Start date
The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
Download the M800 v.33 software
http://software.motec.com.au/release/
Also i2 Standard and i2 Pro analysis software
These are actual working programs, not demo's.
We are using the M800 with the CDI unit on our race engine. All aftermarket ECU's work, it is a matter of how well you want it to work.
The CDI unit is an ignition expander incorporated with CDI as we are running 8 coils. I Don't know anyone running an expander for 12 cyls.
You would require 2 x expander modules
Wiring diagram is here
http://www.motec.com.au/drawings/a04.pdf
The Motec systems are not the cheapest and should not be compared to budget ECU's, the Motec ECU and dash are original equipment on Porsche GT3 Carrera Cup cars.
Your V12 GT40 must rank as one of the best road going 'race cars' and it would be a shame if the engine management could not deliver smoothness and tractability, as well as performance.
BTW not a Motec salesman, actually an Autronic distributor, but in your case I reccomend Motec.
Here's a YouTube video of this 12 ITB motor on Henry's dyno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4gWUlXTewc
Pure V12 porn for you Thomas!
Just a heads up for anyone interested in sharing the joy & misery of these V12's. There's a nice M70 on eBay at the moment being sold by Bavarian Recyling. These guys are pretty trustworthy and even give a 2 year warranty on their motors. Wish I'd known about them when I bought mine! My motors came from 2 individuals, and they both had problems. One had thrown a rod through the rear water jacket big enough to put your fist through, plus another rod was broken, and a third one bent, and the owner said it was running when he pulled it out of the car....... Yeah right. I wanted this motor only for its crank and valve train, which were worth 5x what I paid for the motor, so the hole in the block didn't bother me although it p*ssed me off that the guy lied about it.
This particular motor on eBay has a "Buy it Now" price of $1200, OBO. I know for sure that this is at least the 2nd, and possibly the 3rd time it's been listed, so I'd bet someone could get it for less than $1000: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1988...emQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ011QQitemZ320104538920
I'm sorely tempted to buy it myself, but I already own 2 of these things.
Auction ends Monday the 23rd......
This particular motor on eBay has a "Buy it Now" price of $1200, OBO. I know for sure that this is at least the 2nd, and possibly the 3rd time it's been listed, so I'd bet someone could get it for less than $1000: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1988...emQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ011QQitemZ320104538920
I'm sorely tempted to buy it myself, but I already own 2 of these things.
Auction ends Monday the 23rd......
Full Noise
New Member
G’day Cribbj,
I’ve just stumbled across this thread and I think you’re doing a brilliant job. Love the pics and I can’t wait to see the finished car.
Cheers,
Danny
I’ve just stumbled across this thread and I think you’re doing a brilliant job. Love the pics and I can’t wait to see the finished car.
Cheers,
Danny
Full Noise
New Member
PM sent.
Just thinking, John, about you living in Houston. When this car's finished you’ll just about need permission from NASA to drive it.:notworthy:
Cheers,
Danny
Just thinking, John, about you living in Houston. When this car's finished you’ll just about need permission from NASA to drive it.:notworthy:
Cheers,
Danny
Quickie update, a 6.0l "built" M70 has just come available and I was able to get it at a discount from what it would cost to build from scratch. So this will be the 3rd M7X I've bought now..... Why is it that any engine project seems to take at least two motors to complete?
This motor already has a stroker CSi crankshaft, balanced, lightened and shotpeened OEM rods, and of course steel liners, high compression forgies, heavily ported heads and Schrick cams. It made 430 flywheel HP on the builder's dyno back in '95.
We'll use the short block "as is", change the valve train out to the M73's roller setup, put in some higher lift roller cams, and the ITB's, dry sump it, and will be looking to break 500 at the flywheel. With the upgraded valve train, it should be good for a 7500 redline, however we'll keep it at a conservative 7000, with the ECU's revlimiter set to 7200.
The EMS is still a question mark - the builder knows, likes, and sells Electromotive, but it would take twin Tec3's to do this motor in full sequential. Too, from where I stand, the Electromotive is one of the oldest EMS's on the market - its fundamentals are still solid, but the market has left it behind.
AFAIK, the only "single box" EMS that can do the V12 in fully sequential mode, and is still somewhat affordable for nonprofessional hotrodders, is the MoTeC M800, and even it requires ignition expander modules to get a full 12 injector and 12 ignition outputs, so it's not a "true" single box solution, even though it's a single EMS, and would only require (1) crank & (1) cam trigger. If anyone has used one of MoTeC's boxes with the ignition expanders, I'd like to hear from you about how well it worked?
This motor already has a stroker CSi crankshaft, balanced, lightened and shotpeened OEM rods, and of course steel liners, high compression forgies, heavily ported heads and Schrick cams. It made 430 flywheel HP on the builder's dyno back in '95.
We'll use the short block "as is", change the valve train out to the M73's roller setup, put in some higher lift roller cams, and the ITB's, dry sump it, and will be looking to break 500 at the flywheel. With the upgraded valve train, it should be good for a 7500 redline, however we'll keep it at a conservative 7000, with the ECU's revlimiter set to 7200.
The EMS is still a question mark - the builder knows, likes, and sells Electromotive, but it would take twin Tec3's to do this motor in full sequential. Too, from where I stand, the Electromotive is one of the oldest EMS's on the market - its fundamentals are still solid, but the market has left it behind.
AFAIK, the only "single box" EMS that can do the V12 in fully sequential mode, and is still somewhat affordable for nonprofessional hotrodders, is the MoTeC M800, and even it requires ignition expander modules to get a full 12 injector and 12 ignition outputs, so it's not a "true" single box solution, even though it's a single EMS, and would only require (1) crank & (1) cam trigger. If anyone has used one of MoTeC's boxes with the ignition expanders, I'd like to hear from you about how well it worked?
striker
New Member
Don't
get an Omex 710, they'll provide full sequential 12cylinder injection only wasted spark for the 12cyl engines but can do cop onboard map-sens wideband lambda etc etc etc....
and at a fair price considering what's actually in the magic-box itself. at the current exchange rate we calculated last week that we could buy 4 710's for the price of 1 M800.....
I have an Omex500(pre-600) on my 20v 4age and it works very good! the twin eaton 1uz will have a 700series aswell configured for wastedspark and DIS or cop ignition.
for your rpm range you wouldn't seriously need the sequential ignition? not running boost I assume?
the only extra box in thsi ecu would probably be the wideband controller but even that will go inside the new to come 720 I've been told
http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/
LSpower in the UK just did an NA ls6 engine on ITB's doing 850+/- hp at the crank on this ecu. I know an M800 can also do that but why pay the extra $$$
Grtz Thomas
get an Omex 710, they'll provide full sequential 12cylinder injection only wasted spark for the 12cyl engines but can do cop onboard map-sens wideband lambda etc etc etc....
and at a fair price considering what's actually in the magic-box itself. at the current exchange rate we calculated last week that we could buy 4 710's for the price of 1 M800.....
I have an Omex500(pre-600) on my 20v 4age and it works very good! the twin eaton 1uz will have a 700series aswell configured for wastedspark and DIS or cop ignition.
for your rpm range you wouldn't seriously need the sequential ignition? not running boost I assume?
the only extra box in thsi ecu would probably be the wideband controller but even that will go inside the new to come 720 I've been told
http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/
LSpower in the UK just did an NA ls6 engine on ITB's doing 850+/- hp at the crank on this ecu. I know an M800 can also do that but why pay the extra $$$
Grtz Thomas
Download the M800 v.33 software
http://software.motec.com.au/release/
Also i2 Standard and i2 Pro analysis software
These are actual working programs, not demo's.
We are using the M800 with the CDI unit on our race engine. All aftermarket ECU's work, it is a matter of how well you want it to work.
Thomas, I appreciate the recommendation, but I am dead set against running waste spark in this engine. I can be a bit stubborn about some things and this is one of them. I had a bad experience with waste spark backfire many years ago on a big industrial engine and it really soured me on these systems, and then I had a similar, although not as serious, experience recently with the waste spark system on my Supra. Marketing people say waste spark is OK; I say BS.
Erol thanks for the information; I suppose with the separate CDI unit you don't need the ignition expanders? Do you know anyone who is running these on their motor?
Erol thanks for the information; I suppose with the separate CDI unit you don't need the ignition expanders? Do you know anyone who is running these on their motor?
The CDI unit is an ignition expander incorporated with CDI as we are running 8 coils. I Don't know anyone running an expander for 12 cyls.
You would require 2 x expander modules
Wiring diagram is here
http://www.motec.com.au/drawings/a04.pdf
The Motec systems are not the cheapest and should not be compared to budget ECU's, the Motec ECU and dash are original equipment on Porsche GT3 Carrera Cup cars.
Your V12 GT40 must rank as one of the best road going 'race cars' and it would be a shame if the engine management could not deliver smoothness and tractability, as well as performance.
BTW not a Motec salesman, actually an Autronic distributor, but in your case I reccomend Motec.
striker
New Member
I do agree with you guy's on the motec system, though only if money is no object, which in my case is not so....
Still I feel there's a lot more in the top end than just MoTeC, and disregarding them all as Buget is not fair at all.
For instance "KMS van kronenburg", has done various (loads) Dakar and Formulea cars and have won their fair share of races, as did Omex technology, though their not anywhere as expensive as the Motec systems, that not makes them a Buget solution, as being not as good.
for money no object there are even better systems availeble, Magntti Marelli also does wonders.
(thinking of KMS, they have made a system for the Audi/Lamboghini V12 engine, maybe they can provide you with some info)
Not to say Motec isn't good, there's just more availeble over the horizon.
Buget solutions are: piggy back stuff, SDS efi, Megasquirt and the lot....
Grtz Thomas
Still I feel there's a lot more in the top end than just MoTeC, and disregarding them all as Buget is not fair at all.
For instance "KMS van kronenburg", has done various (loads) Dakar and Formulea cars and have won their fair share of races, as did Omex technology, though their not anywhere as expensive as the Motec systems, that not makes them a Buget solution, as being not as good.
for money no object there are even better systems availeble, Magntti Marelli also does wonders.
(thinking of KMS, they have made a system for the Audi/Lamboghini V12 engine, maybe they can provide you with some info)
Not to say Motec isn't good, there's just more availeble over the horizon.
Buget solutions are: piggy back stuff, SDS efi, Megasquirt and the lot....
Grtz Thomas
Here's a YouTube video of this 12 ITB motor on Henry's dyno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4gWUlXTewc
Pure V12 porn for you Thomas!
