BMW V12 Project
- Thread starter cribbj
- Start date
The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
striker
New Member
**** Why am I on the other side of the world......
I want to have a glance at that thing aswell why holding a beer in the other hand!
anyway I found a dutch company that can also provide me with one, but I want to have all the measurements because I need to know whether it fits my chassis, so I can't wait for piccie's to arrive.
Grtz Thomas
I want to have a glance at that thing aswell why holding a beer in the other hand!
anyway I found a dutch company that can also provide me with one, but I want to have all the measurements because I need to know whether it fits my chassis, so I can't wait for piccie's to arrive.
Grtz Thomas
Thomas, R-Jay posted some dim's on his Toyota V12 here:
http://lextreme.com///forums/showpost.php?p=54067&postcount=28
While I posted some dim's on my BMW V12, and comparison dims for a SBF (Small Block Ford) here:
http://lextreme.com///forums/showpost.php?p=53711&postcount=5
The Bimmer V12's are fairly plentiful and ridiculously cheap - not like the Toyota V12's. There's several of them on eBay right now for $750 or so.
Keep a lookout there in Holland for an 850CSi motor - that's the one to have.
http://lextreme.com///forums/showpost.php?p=54067&postcount=28
While I posted some dim's on my BMW V12, and comparison dims for a SBF (Small Block Ford) here:
http://lextreme.com///forums/showpost.php?p=53711&postcount=5
The Bimmer V12's are fairly plentiful and ridiculously cheap - not like the Toyota V12's. There's several of them on eBay right now for $750 or so.
Keep a lookout there in Holland for an 850CSi motor - that's the one to have.
striker
New Member
Hey Cribbj
I know where to get the Beamer engines far cheaper than on e bay, I can get a complete german 750 for that money... so no problem there. germany is only half an hour driving from my place, remember Holland is only 180km from east to west and about 350 from north to south
so everything is pretty much on hand compared to AUS or USA,
there's however one other alternative I didn't see here... the S600 merc V12 that has dohc and 48 valves, and none of the dodgy twin computing syst bmw uses, however very bad wiring looms have been used on the merc, but hey easier to rewire the engine than to rebuild the computer innit!~
still fond of the century engine though..., but it is roughly 10cm higher and 10cm longer and only 2 cm wider at the heads, so I hope that would fit at all......
thanx for pointing me in the direction cribbj
grtz Thomas
ps just discovered that I did link the 1uz measurements at somepoint from my old website but that's not in use anymore so i'll post them again as an att file.
I know where to get the Beamer engines far cheaper than on e bay, I can get a complete german 750 for that money... so no problem there. germany is only half an hour driving from my place, remember Holland is only 180km from east to west and about 350 from north to south
so everything is pretty much on hand compared to AUS or USA,
there's however one other alternative I didn't see here... the S600 merc V12 that has dohc and 48 valves, and none of the dodgy twin computing syst bmw uses, however very bad wiring looms have been used on the merc, but hey easier to rewire the engine than to rebuild the computer innit!~
still fond of the century engine though..., but it is roughly 10cm higher and 10cm longer and only 2 cm wider at the heads, so I hope that would fit at all......
thanx for pointing me in the direction cribbj
grtz Thomas
ps just discovered that I did link the 1uz measurements at somepoint from my old website but that's not in use anymore so i'll post them again as an att file.
Thomas, if you find an 850CSi motor at a good price, let me know?
Yep the Merc would be a great platform to start with, but their acquisition cost here in the US is much higher than the Bimmers, and is approaching that of a Ferrari motor.
Brilliant job of measuring you did on that 1UZ motor. Were you using a 3D laser scanner? I've been very curious about that technology and what types of industries and companies use it and have them available? Can you rent them or is it one of those weekend benefits of working in the right industry and for the right company ????
John
Yep the Merc would be a great platform to start with, but their acquisition cost here in the US is much higher than the Bimmers, and is approaching that of a Ferrari motor.
Brilliant job of measuring you did on that 1UZ motor. Were you using a 3D laser scanner? I've been very curious about that technology and what types of industries and companies use it and have them available? Can you rent them or is it one of those weekend benefits of working in the right industry and for the right company ????
John
striker
New Member
Hey cribbj (john)
No I did this the old fashoined way, with an aray of calipers and gauges to get the distances right.
You could, get something measured in at a company which is active in the "Rapid Prototyping" field and does "reverse engineering" and "Laser scanning", I know of one such company (www.amitek.nl) because the owner is also a member at the dutch kitcar club (www.kitcarclub.nl) They used 3d laser bench once to measure up a model car, with the file that came from that the could 5axis CNC a exact replica 5 times as big, that would need surface treatment which could then be 3d'd again to cnc in foam to the 1:1 size and thus make a body plug for moulding..... nice indeed.
there are numurous company's involved in rapid prototyiping, I'm planning to make solidworks/Cad files for 1 individual intake runner for the 1uzfe and then take a simple Jenvey ITB (the flat alloy ones) to get to a very cheap 44/48mm ITB set, which would be very nice for this engine but i'm nowhere near that stage now. maybe I'll hotpress them from alloy tube aswell if that's the easier route.
anyway I'll look around for the Bimmer engine over here, I take you want a s70 engine and not the m70???? those could get expensive because even those cars aren't that plenty over here, sl600 are more common then 850csi's in germany so I'll have a look around.
Grtz Thomas
No I did this the old fashoined way, with an aray of calipers and gauges to get the distances right.
You could, get something measured in at a company which is active in the "Rapid Prototyping" field and does "reverse engineering" and "Laser scanning", I know of one such company (www.amitek.nl) because the owner is also a member at the dutch kitcar club (www.kitcarclub.nl) They used 3d laser bench once to measure up a model car, with the file that came from that the could 5axis CNC a exact replica 5 times as big, that would need surface treatment which could then be 3d'd again to cnc in foam to the 1:1 size and thus make a body plug for moulding..... nice indeed.
there are numurous company's involved in rapid prototyiping, I'm planning to make solidworks/Cad files for 1 individual intake runner for the 1uzfe and then take a simple Jenvey ITB (the flat alloy ones) to get to a very cheap 44/48mm ITB set, which would be very nice for this engine but i'm nowhere near that stage now. maybe I'll hotpress them from alloy tube aswell if that's the easier route.
anyway I'll look around for the Bimmer engine over here, I take you want a s70 engine and not the m70???? those could get expensive because even those cars aren't that plenty over here, sl600 are more common then 850csi's in germany so I'll have a look around.
Grtz Thomas
Your right they were the rocket ships of the mid 70 - 80's. I think it is a 6ltr no idea of the claimed hp in standard trim. Induction looks very restricted along with the headers. Ive had it running, it sounds sweet enough. It's mated to a turbo 400 box and power lock diff. There is some serious engine bay room too.
Not quite a GT40.
Not quite a GT40.
Here's a few pics of my M73 mockup motor being test fit into a Roaring Forties chassis. Lo and behold, it fits!
This is brilliant news, as it means neither the chassis nor the body will require to be "stretched". I was anticipating having to stretch both a minimum of 4-6 inches, so this is very good news indeed.
My project isn't nearly as far along as it looks - this is an empty mockup motor, as my real one is just now getting settled in at the new engine builder's shop in North Carolina, and is probably at least 1.5 years and $20K away from running. The chassis in these pics belongs to another GT40 enthusiast, and is a 70% finished setup, so it was a natural to use for test fitting with my motor/transaxle.
Anyway, this is the kind of stuff that keeps you going, and keeps you pouring money into these black hole projects.....
This is brilliant news, as it means neither the chassis nor the body will require to be "stretched". I was anticipating having to stretch both a minimum of 4-6 inches, so this is very good news indeed.
My project isn't nearly as far along as it looks - this is an empty mockup motor, as my real one is just now getting settled in at the new engine builder's shop in North Carolina, and is probably at least 1.5 years and $20K away from running. The chassis in these pics belongs to another GT40 enthusiast, and is a 70% finished setup, so it was a natural to use for test fitting with my motor/transaxle.
Anyway, this is the kind of stuff that keeps you going, and keeps you pouring money into these black hole projects.....
Well, I wish I knew, but I do know that engine builders are the most independent lot of characters I've ever worked with. They're impossible to hold to either a budget or a schedule, and they're worse than politicians when it comes to making pre-election promises, then failing to deliver. You can discuss and agree with them how the motor is going to be built, then you find out three months later they're doing something completely different. They don't answer email, and very few will even return phone calls. A few examples:
My 2JZ motor took two builders, 2.5 years and around $10K to build.
The 1UZ (long block only!) has taken 1.5 years and around $10K.
My V12 is now on its 2nd builder, and into the 2nd year, and I really don't expect it to be finished for another 1.5 years.
A fellow I know just had his BMW V12 built up and swapped into his 850Ci and his project took 4 years and more than $40K (but his had LOTS of exotic, one-off stuff inside, too.)
Sure if you throw enough money at these guys you can get things done faster. You can also get things done faster if you do most of the work yourself and only contract out the machining, but honestly, there aren't that many who have the time, patience and expertise to blueprint & build a motor themselves. My hat's certainly off to those who do.
My 2JZ motor took two builders, 2.5 years and around $10K to build.
The 1UZ (long block only!) has taken 1.5 years and around $10K.
My V12 is now on its 2nd builder, and into the 2nd year, and I really don't expect it to be finished for another 1.5 years.
A fellow I know just had his BMW V12 built up and swapped into his 850Ci and his project took 4 years and more than $40K (but his had LOTS of exotic, one-off stuff inside, too.)
Sure if you throw enough money at these guys you can get things done faster. You can also get things done faster if you do most of the work yourself and only contract out the machining, but honestly, there aren't that many who have the time, patience and expertise to blueprint & build a motor themselves. My hat's certainly off to those who do.
well if its an engine builder with lots of projects, then i can understand it. but if he only has a few projects, or even just yours, it should be done quickly. after all, it is only one engine. and even if blueprinting and balancing take a month or two, the actual assembly of the engine should only take a few hours, not a year and a half. not that i know anything at all about engine building, thats just my opinion.
Here's a few pics of an engine like mine on the engine builder's dyno. The ITB setup is his own design, using IDA/IDF look-a-like TB's from TWM.
Wish my motor was this far along - hopefully in another 12-18 months it'll be on this dyno. Currently it's in boxes at this guy's shop.
Wish my motor was this far along - hopefully in another 12-18 months it'll be on this dyno. Currently it's in boxes at this guy's shop.
IIRC he said the owner chose those short stacks purely from a hood clearance perspective.
This engine was seriously tweaked for an 850 owner/customer. I believe the builder bored/stroked it to 6.0 litres, raised compression to 10:1, plus he did put in his own custom cams and roller valve train, which brought the peak power curve up past 6000 RPM. I believe this motor made around 500-525 BHP on the dyno, and has room for more.
It still has the ugly BMW cartridge type oil filter hanging off the left side, along with some other OEM junk that mine won't have.
No audio clips unfortunately, however Jay Esterer has some of the BMW V12 motor on his Ultima website:
http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/index.html
This engine was seriously tweaked for an 850 owner/customer. I believe the builder bored/stroked it to 6.0 litres, raised compression to 10:1, plus he did put in his own custom cams and roller valve train, which brought the peak power curve up past 6000 RPM. I believe this motor made around 500-525 BHP on the dyno, and has room for more.
It still has the ugly BMW cartridge type oil filter hanging off the left side, along with some other OEM junk that mine won't have.
No audio clips unfortunately, however Jay Esterer has some of the BMW V12 motor on his Ultima website:
http://www.ultimav12.ca/videos/index.html
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Thomas, it's definitely the BMW V12, although both Jay & I wish we could get our hands on the Toy V12.
They're a DOHC design, while the bimmer is only SOHC, with some followers. Plus with its DOHC's the Toy heads are better suited for a COP setup than the BMW.
They're a DOHC design, while the bimmer is only SOHC, with some followers. Plus with its DOHC's the Toy heads are better suited for a COP setup than the BMW.
striker
New Member
Why use COP, there are some very good EDIS like dual coil systems out there, I run FACET motorsports duals on my 20v in the striker, and they are very good, altough COP's make a very nice installation if that's the point go for them.
Would be nice, Toy V12 on trumpets and COP underneath the covers and run all wiring and cable's out of sight..... hmmm one can dream.
PS I hear that the Honda CBR 900 cop's fit in the 1uzfe gen 1, is that true???
grtz Thomas
grtz Thomas
Would be nice, Toy V12 on trumpets and COP underneath the covers and run all wiring and cable's out of sight..... hmmm one can dream.
PS I hear that the Honda CBR 900 cop's fit in the 1uzfe gen 1, is that true???
grtz Thomas
grtz Thomas
