BMW V12 Project

[cribbj]

Andy, overall I like the lines of the GTM better than Fran's SLC, but it still has a few bad angles and reminds me of a slightly squashed GT40.

Fran did a spider version of his SLC that he called his "Le Mans" model, that got everybody stirred up for awhile, and a few guys over at GT40s.com PhotoShopped the SLC and come up with some slinky looking versions, too. But Fran doesn't have the resources, nor the interest to build one-off variations for people without very deep pockets. Too, all the variations of the SLC still look somewhat squared off, and IMO a car body shouldn't have any angles, only curves.

The Jag XJ13 is nice & curvy, but IMO has too much overhang, both front & rear:



Some of the 60's through 80's F-cars would look great, but Maranello's legal beagles take a dim view of anyone trying to copy their stuff.

The Chaparral 2F (sans wing) & Lola MK6 come closest to what I'd want to do with my engine/transaxle, but no one is doing repro's for either one and last time I talked to someone at the Chaparral museum, he said the continuation series never got off the ground. The GT40 is of course a close cousin to the Lola, which is why I like it so much, but I just couldn't pull the trigger on one.

The 2F:


The Lola MK6:


So still searching.......

Probably the best solution is to take an existing chassis and body that are close, and bring it to a fiberglass artist to sculpt what I want.....

That or figure out how to make that Eagle repro somewhat street legal..... like the guy over on GT40s did with his Lola Indy car. Imagine this in your rearview mirror:



This car is owned by a fellow out in Oregon, and it's street legal, at least by Oregon's rules of the road. See the license plate under the wing:

 

[Cobber]

The thing I like about the GTM is the price..... It is very good value for money and the Mk2 has better lines now than the original GTM as well and glass windows instead of perspex.
I think the GTM started life as a gt40 but got changed when Mr Shelby started legal action against them on the 65 coupe (he lost).

The wing on the 2F just looks wrong I'm sure the got the parts from the local hardware store at the last minute.

How about a C or D type.
http://www.proteuscars.co.uk/racingcars.asp

 

[cribbj]

How about a C or D type.
http://www.proteuscars.co.uk/racingcars.asp

Nope, not into 50's Jags, although I like the late 50's Vanwalls. They're doing a continuation series of them, powered by Ferrari V12's. Only problem is my transaxle would become an orphan:

http://www.vanwallcars.com/html/sports_racer.html

 

[RUFAZZ]

Actually the very first Superlight Coupe was built with a twin turbo Lexus V8, but Fran quickly moved to the LSx platform as it had more appeal to the masses.




Hey Adrian, good to see you over here. Fran & I have had many discussions about his cars, and in fact he kept my G50 transaxle in storage at his place for nearly two years. Unfortunately his SLC just doesn't trip my trigger at all.

Thanks, gotta follow this build whereever it goes

Well you know Fran can make your automotive dreams come true:biglaugh:

 

[cribbj]

After a lot of searching, I may have found "the" right car that really trips my trigger: the DeTomaso Mangusta









Unfortunately, only 400 something of these were ever made, and even if an original came up for sale, I wouldn't have the heart to chop it up for my project. BUT, there are talented people in the DeTomaso community who have fiberglass bodies, and who build tube chassis'. I haven't begun to sort things out yet, but it's looking interesting.....

 

[Crambo]

Awww, buy two.............one each for you and me!
Looks good all angles, gets my vote.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Awesome!
Although I have always prefered the Pantera GTS myself.

 

[cribbj]

Awesome!
Although I have always prefered the Pantera GTS myself.

I like the GTS too, and it's the fallback in case the Mangusta doesn't pan out. In my search, I kept coming back to the Mangusta, the Ferrari 512BB, and the early Pantera as the best shapes (in my eyes). I kept looking around for kits or bodies, and finally stumbled onto some sources in the DeTomaso community.

Awww, buy two.............one each for you and me!
Looks good all angles, gets my vote.

Yea, there are no bad angles at all with this car are there? That's what bums me out with most. But then it was designed by Guigiaro who was a styling perfectionist. BTW, if you're interested in building one of these, I'm sure it would be more interesting for one of the custom guys to do 2 than just one. Hopefully cheaper too.....

 

[cribbj]

This 'glass 'goose project is going through a feasibility study just now.

I've got a great chassis builder lined up, whose day job is refurbishing yachts for filthy rich folk. He's built a couple of GT40 replicas and has scratch built a couple of very competitive racecars, so scratch building a spaceframe chassis won't be that difficult, nor will trimming out an interior.

Then there's the body. I found a guy already in the composite plastics business, and he sells fiberglass or CF body parts for Panteras. He took a set of molds from a Mangusta many years ago, but has never used them, so this could be interesting.

Next step is putting together a spreadsheet for the build to see if the numbers work. It's always interesting and expensive to be the first.....

 

[Crambo]

Oh, good,........then I'll be second

 

[Smitherz]

Awesome. That car design is the answer for sure. I was overwhelmed by all the options you were considering here. I've considered doing a custom build like this someday.

 

[JBrady]

Better off with the repro and tube frame as the original Mangusta's were considered deadly with bad handling manners.

"Handling didn't match its supercar look either. Like many other products by De Tomaso, this car was underdeveloped. Its backbone chassis might work fine in Vallelunga, but in the longer, heavier and more powerful Mangusta the chassis was too weak, resulting in a lot of flexing, hence unpredictable handling. Moreover, De Tomaso failed to tame its unbalanced weight distribution of 32:68.

Perhaps Alejandro De Tomaso was too good as a businessman, he cared more about profits than engineering excellence and build quality. In 4 years, he built around 400 Mangustas, all finished with poor quality and troubled by rust problems later on. The Mangusta died in 1971 as De Tomaso turned his interest to a more profitable project, Pantera."

Another consideration would be the BMW M1. Gotta have the widebody and spoilers but would make a very interesting home for your BMW V12

 

[JBrady]

Most of the SL-C pics were so-so. Have you seen one in person? Many if not most cars have a completely different impact in person than in pictures.

Best pic I found of the SL-C. Looks very GTP to me.

 

[cribbj]

John, no I must admit I haven't seen an SLC in real life, and everyone who has says the pics don't do it justice. But for me, there's something just not right if the car isn't very photogenic. I realise beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so it's only my opinion about the SLC. Most people find it very attractive, if not beautiful.

The M1 doesn't quite do it for me either. A bit too hefty around the hind quarters there. Sorta like some of those big German gals who've indulged in too much wiener schnitzel. You're right, though, the flares and widebody setup help it a lot.

I hear you about the Mangusta's loosey goosey chassis and handling. It's one of the things I hope we can sort out if we go forward on this. Part of the problem I'm sure, was that huge lump of BBF in the backseat, and the ally V12 should help that, since it's about 100-150lbs lighter.

 

[koenig d]

just a heads up;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Megasquirt-2-..._Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c1b4002ff

 

[BigKriss]

Hohn, from South Africa.

http://www.baileycars.co.za/

 

[fastegg]

1968 gt-40

I love GT-40's.... In my humble opinion, they are the most beautiful sports car ever built (It more than equals the sensational 1998 LS400 VVTi)

 

[jen3ss]

Have you considered a Maserati, like the Merak?
Not as smooth as the Mangusta, but it has some potential.

 

[cribbj]

Have you considered a Maserati, like the Merak?
Not as smooth as the Mangusta, but it has some potential.

No, to be honest, I hadn't. And you're right, it certainly has potential. I consider Guigiaro to be the consummate car designer, so perhaps that's really where I should be doing my hunting - from his repertoire.

I love GT-40's.... In my humble opinion, they are the most beautiful sports car ever built (It more than equals the sensational 1998 LS400 VVTi)

No denying they have some of the most beautiful lines of any car every built, but the GT40 has lost some of its allure for me. Too, there's seems to be a stigma associated with GT40's and their owners, similar to the 'vette stigma. And plus, they're becoming nearly as common as 'vettes and Porsches, so some of the exclusivity and mystery of GT40's has been lost. Still, the beemer may wind up in a GT40 body yet if the Mangusta doesn't pan out, and the way it's going, it may not. There are way too many expensive unknowns with trying to get a composite body built from an unproven set of molds that are over 30 years old and in unknown condition.

I'm taking another look at the XJ13 too, and trying to get happier with it. From 1/4 and 3/4 profiles it's one of the sexiest things on 4 wheels, but from a straight profile view it just looks bulbous and overhung.

 

[Cobber]

I can you you in touch with a guy over here that will hand build you any body you want out of aluminium on a bird cage....... No paint required.

Here is his latest build an AC A98 built from original plans.
AC A98 coupe.