Project Thread Project SC400TT

[BlackUZZ31]

Shrouds are a good thing if the fans don't cover >75% of the radiator, having done a few electric fan setups i go by the following:

large surface area 2 - 3 core radiator shrouded fans

small surface area 3 - 4 core radiator two fans that cover as much of the radiator as you can but no shroud.

keep in mind fans should only have to cool an idle load, if the fans are on above 60kph (40mph) you have other issues such as cooling system capacity for the thermal load OR inadequate air flow in the engine bay.

To be brutal, I have never seen a front mount turbo install work on the street as a daily driver, I was involved with a MK III supra with a front mount T04z on a 6ltr LS v8 and despite lots of shielding and ducting, under the bonnet was an oven, just too much equipment putting out heat and restricting airflow, while we got it to run and not overheat, on pulling it down there where many melted electrical parts!

while very homosexual, large bonnet vents maybe your only escape.

 

[XR8tt]

Ceramic coated exhaust and strategically placed heat shields fixes heat issues...
Having big enough expansion tank or header tank helps when there's high heat at over short periods...
Good shrouds can make or break a cooling system..
Especially when / if radiator core is close to it's limit...

 

[SC400TT]

Ryan, I was interested to see you going back to the shroud idea after deciding to mount the fans directly to the radiator. Did you actually try it without a shroud and was the system overheating?

And did you go with some blow out flaps on this new shroud?

I've had some overheating issues with the FCar this summer, and am chalking it up to a combination of a marginally sized radiator, plus not getting enough air through it. Sound familiar?

Which model SPAL's did you go with? Those look bigger than a pair of 14's?

John, I used these SPAL's fans:

30101509Weight: 3.75 lbs.
VA08-AP51/C-23A FAN (14" MP)
14" Straight Blade Medium Profile Fan / 12V Puller
From our medium profile fan line this fan is designed to exceed the performance of similar stock OEM fans. For use when improved airflow is needed on today's high performance vehicles. It is a radiator fan, intercooler fan, and AC condenser fan. Featuring a fully sealed motor that is waterproof/dustproof. Each fan is individually balanced for long life.
Price:* $134.95

Yes, I did overheat without the shroud and with the 14" Flex-A-Lite fans, but to be fair, I do not think it was the fans. Also, a point should be made that the previous overheating problem with the Zirgo fan/shroud set up where I overheated on the freeway at 70 mph, was resolved when I placed the Flex-A-Lites. But, another caveat...I did not research, determine and install the OEM underbody and side body panels with the Zirgo set up in place. I believe the main problem for the freeway overheating was not the lack of a flap in the shroud, but in the lack of the panels. I did place the panels on the car with the Flex-A-Lites (FAL) fans and I did not overheat at all until I had driven the car for about an hour and unknowingly overloaded the wiring harness connected to them. This caused the harness to melt at the fuse, which eventually popped the fuse and saved me from a fire. This also burned out one of the FAL fans. Before the fuse popped, the overloaded harness got hot, and somehow resulted in a fault in one of the FAL fans, which caused the car to start overheating in stop and go traffic, but was of no problem while on the freeway. I believe if I had installed individual wiring harnesses and relays for each FAL fan, I would not have overheated, nor blown one of the fans out, nor would I have overheated, but I do not know how efficient I would have been in traffic, with the AC running. Hence, my reason for the shroud with the new SPAL's fans.

I did a bit of research, and I found that the shrouds definitely increase cooling efficiency when idling. This is important when running the AC in stop and go traffic. Also, I found out that if the fans are large enough to cover over 70% - 75% of the radiator's surface area, then no flap is needed.

In the case of the Zirgo set up, this was a potential problem due to the small fan size of 10.5"each. This is not an issue with the 14" fans.

So, we shall soon see the results, which I will report back to you all. And, as previously stated in another post, I also did build new, separate and dedicated wiring harnesses for each fan, each, with it's own relay, fuse, power source and ground. I should be good to go...We shall see. Wish me well...

Ryan

 

[cribbj]

Ryan, thanks for the explanation & history - I'd lost track of the sequence of events. It'll be really interesting to see how this setup works for you.

The acid test for my FCar seems to be in stop & go traffic or idling out in the sun or in the garage with the aircon on, at high ambient temps (>95F). Once the temp gauge starts climbing past 190, that's it - it keeps going until it's up past 230. I usually shut it down when it hits 235.

At lower ambients, or out on the highway, no overheating issues anymore, so the simple explanation seems to be that the fans aren't man enough with the car stationary, but they're brand new and are SPAL's absolute highest output fans, ie their 16" model 30102113, which put out 3000 CFM EACH.

Some reckon getting enough air into the engine bay isn't the issue, it's getting it out that's the problem. It's true that with the hood open, the car doesn't overheat quite as badly, but it'll still get pretty high. I figure the whole system, radiator included, just isn't quite as big as it needs to be.

 

[SC400TT]

Ryan, thanks for the explanation & history - I'd lost track of the sequence of events. It'll be really interesting to see how this setup works for you.

The acid test for my FCar seems to be in stop & go traffic or idling out in the sun or in the garage with the aircon on, at high ambient temps (>95F). Once the temp gauge starts climbing past 190, that's it - it keeps going until it's up past 230. I usually shut it down when it hits 235.

At lower ambients, or out on the highway, no overheating issues anymore, so the simple explanation seems to be that the fans aren't man enough with the car stationary, but they're brand new and are SPAL's absolute highest output fans, ie their 16" model 30102113, which put out 3000 CFM EACH.

Some reckon getting enough air into the engine bay isn't the issue, it's getting it out that's the problem. It's true that with the hood open, the car doesn't overheat quite as badly, but it'll still get pretty high. I figure the whole system, radiator included, just isn't quite as big as it needs to be.

John, you are welcome. And, I do understand. I still may have to add a secondary radiator to resolve the issue, if it becomes a problem. Experience and the "Acid" test will reveal if it is up to snuff. After all, I believe the Bugatti Veyron employs 16 radiators to cool itself. so, we know heat has to be dealt with. I may add a thrid custom vent in the front center of the hood as well. But, only if necessary.

Ryan

 

[spf_lexus]

I may add a thrid custom vent in the front center of the hood as well. But, only if necessary.

I just installed the seibon TS-II hood on my sc and man it does wonders for underhood temps. The day it was installed the temps were 105 outside. I went for a drive and at stop lights I could see waves of heat rushing up out of the vents... which are positioned directly above your turbos, or my procharger. My coolant tmep gauge dropped just a tad as well. The fans pull through the rad, and across the hot turbos and out of the hood in an almost straight line fashion.

 

[cribbj]

I might have to have a chat with Seibon about building a vented hood for this 550..... Can those CF hoods be painted? How's the fitment?

I kept telling myself when I bought it that this car would not get modified, but there's just so many things that are begging to be done better

 

[stevechumo]

...Some reckon getting enough air into the engine bay isn't the issue, it's getting it out that's the problem. It's true that with the hood open, the car doesn't overheat quite as badly, but it'll still get pretty high. I figure the whole system, radiator included, just isn't quite as big as it needs to be.

I totally agree with you on this. Getting the air out is important as getting the air in. In my opinion, getting the air out is more important than getting the air in.

 

[spf_lexus]

Can those CF hoods be painted? How's the fitment?

I have installed 2 seibon hoods. 1 OEM and this vented type. Both had flawless fitment, perfect weave, and yes, they can be painted. The vents can be a bit flexy but as long as your not sliding across the hood like Starsky & Hutch, they are plenty strong.

 

[SC400TT]

Success At Last!! No Overheating!!

As the caption headlines, it appears that I have resolved the overheating issue. Combining the (2) SPAL 14" fans along with the Custom Shroud from TCP Performance is a winning combination!

They have worked like a champ since I have installed the Combo. No overheating issues at all...In fact, I have not seen it above 40% on the OEM temp gauge. Not even once...No matter what the conditions were. So far, so good....Great not to be overheating...But, I keep my eye on the temp gauge regularly, to be safe...

I have been working on the transmission set up and software with the TCU. It is now all set up and with the correct parameters for e-shift and normal auto shifting. It still needs tuning now. But the car is coming together. As soon as Darin tunes the transmission, then he can tune it on the dyno. Almost there.....Finally....After 6 looooooooong years!!!!!

SC400TT

 

[cribbj]

Great to hear it Ryan, but what have the ambient temps been around there?

My overheating issues with the Fcar are gone now too, but it's because the ambient temps dropped from 105 to around 85.

 

[XR8tt]

Yea I guess you have to fit radiator to the power level in size...
I more than doubled the power in my road car ..
Was looking at 2 or 3 core ..
I went with custom 4 core as the expense was nearly the same...

 

[Cobber]

Another vintage car for the show and shine, the devil is in the detail, well done and nearly there.

 

[SC400TT]

Great to hear it Ryan, but what have the ambient temps been around there?

My overheating issues with the Fcar are gone now too, but it's because the ambient temps dropped from 105 to around 85.

John, good question...Depende upon the day...In Florida, at this time of year, it can range tremendously....From 100 degrees to 50 degrees. it has been between 92 and 70 mainly. I have had hot and cooler days with this set up, John...So Far, it has not mattered...Time will tell.

Yea I guess you have to fit radiator to the power level in size...
I more than doubled the power in my road car ..
Was looking at 2 or 3 core ..
I went with custom 4 core as the expense was nearly the same...

Yep, lots of custom parts have had to be made for this project...

Another vintage car for the show and shine, the devil is in the detail, well done and nearly there.

Thanks, it is getting closer...finally.

Ryan

 

[SC400TT]

Post from Motorheaddown

Hey guys, Scott dropped by yesterday, and we went for a spin. Here is what he posted up on CL:

"I was in Ryan's neighborhood yesterday and stopped by to catch up and see the status of his build. His attention to detail combined with a lot of patience is beginning to pay off.

Overall, the stance of the car looks great! The exterior is almost completely assembled and only lacks some running lights, hood vents, and badging on the front bumper. Additionally, seeing the car off the jack stands with weight on wheels and lowered makes it very menacing - especially with the custom headlights installed.

He popped the hood and pointed out updates since I was last there. The headers were tightly wrapped, and the new fan shroud was installed. Additionally, he was able to adapt the OEM under-bumper vent to work with the intercooler to ensure air was getting to the radiator. All the hard work is paying off. We went for a spin, and the car never got close to getting hot.

Needless to say, the potential of the car is beginning to show; additionally, the displacement of the 1uz-fe is evident when he gets on the throttle. The torque is immediate, and the turbos are quick to spool. The combination of the two
really puts you back in the seat. In comparison, it doesn't have the lag of my 74mm turbo, 2jz-powered sc300. Admittedly, there is still a LOT to tune, but once he gets the transmission tuned and the engined dialed in, it'll be a very sweet ride and a pleasure to drive.

I'm definitely looking forward to the next visit!

-scott
__________________
'95 sc300 T74GTS, AEM, 6-speed/LSD, Tilton clutch, 272 cams,
RLTC, meth injection, 95lbs inj, Greddy 4-row, DaveH intake, etc
838rwhp@32psi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rMEy3s8I7s"...

Anyway, being an auto, and being controlled by the PCS TCU, it must be tuned. Once it is, it should be great.

 

[SC400TT]

Lemon into Lemonade!

Well, time for a new post...Since I last posted, the toughest thing I was facing was hooking up with Darin...With him being constantly in demand for both tuning and building people's rides, plus with me being in a bike accident, going through rehab, and working, it was near impossible to even connect, much less schedule a tuning session. Previously, Darin and I had discussed him tuning my BL built auto transmission, and he said he would consider it. When we finally hooked up, he decided that since he had not tuned my Transmission controller, and his tight schedule, he declined tuning my tranny. This, of course, was a huge let down for me, but I did understand. So, now, I was in a pickle...I could not really drive the car very much, nor dyno it until I worked out the transmission issues and tuned it. I started searching for someone to tune it, and I could find no one in Central Florida that was interested, not even remotely...So, once again, my project was stalled.

I decided to at least get the transmission set up and wired correctly so that I could be prepared to fly in a tuner. So, first, I checked all wiring and connections to make sure they were correct, or determine what issues still needed attention. Since I was having a problem with the shifter linkage, I took my car into Lexus of Orlando, and had them perform a thorough review of everything, and to repair the linkage issue, and they did a most excellent job, as they always do. I have always had nothing short of excellent service and support from Lexus of Orlando, and Alan Sandberg at the dealership, and once again, they delivered. I even got a free Loaner...

Then, I called PCS, and spoke to them about my dilemma. They truly have the best customer service and support of any after market, performance manufacturer that I have ever met or dealt with. They spent hours with me getting the transmission programmed correctly so that all the shift indicators on the shifter and the E-shift were functioning properly. They also sent me a base map and helped me to get the car running a little better. They also said that if I could get my car to them, they would tune it (transmission) for me. So, I started to look at when and how I would get my SC up to Virginia, where they were located.

They mentioned to me that it was unfortunate that I had not contacted them afew weeks earlier, as they were in Orlando at the PRI show, and they would have gladly met up with me to tune my transmission then...Ughhhhhhh

if only I had known...

But, as fortune would have it, PCS called me back and let me know that the owner and founder of PCS, Russ Taylor, was driving down to Florida to pick up his nely rebuilt Mazda 3 pure race car from a custom fabricator in Davenport FL, and that he wanted to hook up with me and tune my transmission. Now get this...Russ, wrote the code that is in the TCU, he is a mechanical engineer, a master transmission mechanic, and much more...There was no better person to train my transmission than Russ. We hooked up yesterday, December 17th, 2011, in the evening on his drive back to Virginia, and he spent the the next 2 hours tuning and tweaking and repairing everything about my BL tranny...Needless to say, the ride is phenomenal, and the transmission is so close to stock in normal driving that I was flabbergasted...In performance, my car absolutely came ALIVE! It shifts perfectly! E-Shift is instantaneous, and flawless. I am now able to get the power to the road. I roasted the rear tires in first gear from a dead stop to redline...Something this car has never, ever done before...The car easily burns rubber shifting into second, and at WOT continues to roast the tires until I let off...I can be driving done the road at 40 mph, step on it, and it rips the tires loose from the pavement with ease...All this and mre, and I am at LOW BOOST. Wait until Darin gets ahold of this car on the Dyno...I can hardly stand the anticipation!! The car is wicked fast on the Interstate, simply pressing the throttle partially and it downshifts immediately, and the turbos wine, and the car surges forward, with ease...And of course, when I let off, that most beautiful sound of the BOV expelling extra air is magical to listen...It has been worth all that I have gone through to get here. I am looking forward to January, when Darin can out his finishing touches on the Dyno Tune!

Stay tuned guys...Got to go make some carbon fiber pieces made, and somplete the interior...

WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ryan

 

[cribbj]

Wow, ESP for sure Ryan..... I was just thinking about you & your project last evening and was going to ask what's been happening.

Really look forward to hearing about your tuning session.

BTW, I could use a good carbon fiber fabricator if you have any recommendations.

 

[XR8tt]

Top write up Ryan,,, Easy when things go well too...
Good on ya...

 

[stevechumo]

Ryan,
You're almost there.

 

[SC400TT]

Sorry I haven't been on much lately guys...I think I mentioned that I got struck by a car while riding my 10 speed across a sidewalk? Anyway, that caused me some serious issues for several months, but all is getting much better now...

Plus, been exceptionally busy with career and family, so, I put the Lexus aside...For a few months.

Gotta rebuild the DP, and the MP. Reason is the configuration of the DP now simply will not allow me enough room to clear components within the engine bay...Fans, etc. So, without having to rebuild the whole plumbing set up, I am rebuilding the DP and the MP out of lots of expensive oval tubing. The distance between the two turbine flanges is only 8,9 inches, so I am having them merge right out of the turbos, then once past the collector, the 2 three inch pipes exiting the turbos will be welded onto an oval 4" tube. The mid pipe will also be oval tubing so i can get more flow back to where the exhausts split off.

Ryan