With your setup Thomas, you would have to create an "air tight seal" over all the eight throttle bodies just like the stock snorkel tube to the single stock throttle body... Any air leaks and the idle is shot and you will stall out with the MAF... Wow, you did that and made it all work?? What about the TPS (throttle position sensor) and stuff?
Porting intake manifold, larger tb vs. itb's
- Thread starter WDoherty
- Start date
The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
Justen, if I were to remove my Injen snorkel tube that is strapped down to the throttle body now and just set it in place in front of the throttle body the motor will idle for a second and then immediately stall out... Just like when trying to spray clean the throttle body when the engine is running, you need to keep the idle high to keep it from stalling as you spray..
NEVER SET ON N/A - are you crazy? Boost is king with small liter motors or any motors for that matter.... However, always interested in the possibities of a certain mod on the 1uz-fe's..... If it is really as easy as like everyone is saying then I may just go with ITB's since it is so cheap too...Why not?
I just don't think it is that easy as everyone is making it out to be...Doable but not easy... I am really curious as to what gains one would expect on 1uz-fe motor when switching from the stock single throttle body to these 8 independant throttle bodies with the MAF still intact...
Can anyone throw a guess out? Striker ? Please don't say just Faster THROTTLE RESPONSE either....
Justen, I think Jibbby is thinking to keep a MAF upstream of that plenum. So if you had an air leak after the MAF it wouldn't be good.
I believe both BMW and Ferrari and maybe others, ran or run systems like this? ITB's at or near each head for best response, then a plenum on top of each bank of ITB's followed by a snorkel with the MAF in it and finally an air filter with a cool air intake. So a Vee motor would have two plenums, two snorkels, two MAF's, etc.
For me, this defeats one of the attractions of ITB's, which is their visual appeal, because they'll be hidden under the plenums. Still, it may be a more practical way to do ITB's for a street driven car.
Jake, thank you again for the vote of confidence in another wonderful post of yours.....Are you always such an arse hole?.... If you don't have anything good or positive to say or add why don't you just not post.. It just makes you look more stupid which we all know you are not..Grow up man....:cop:
Excellent points made Justen...My sediments exactly....
Jake Breyck
New Member
jibby its not hard to do, those throttlebodys are all desinged to be air tight anyhow.
Is it that easy???....Here is what comes to mind...
1) You need the correct eight throttle body Intake manifold...
2) Install the eight throttle bodies on the manifold..
3) hookup the throttle cable and throttle bars to work with eight throttle bodies in unison, adjust and correct as needed...Make it all reliable..
4) TPS sensor maybe you can trick it or leave it be, I don't know..
5) TB Vacume lines need to sealed or re-routed.
6) Convert the stock snorkel tube into a huge funel tube design that is sealed and air tight over all the eight throttle bodies.. To insure a steady idle while keeping the stock ecu and MAF intact....
7) Start the car and pray the idle holds steady and or doesn't stall out, this all depends on the airflow meter reads to the ECU, air leaks, etc......
I am sure I am forgeting some other minor detials...Does that sound about right?... Maybe it's just me but it doesn't sound all that easy... There is a lot of custom work needed and probably a lot of trouble shooting to consider... If it all works out I like the idea of it all... I would sure want to see some gains for all the trouble though and not just more throttle response..
I have good throttle reponse now with the single TB, Torque converter stall rate change and nitrous...
1) You need the correct eight throttle body Intake manifold...
2) Install the eight throttle bodies on the manifold..
3) hookup the throttle cable and throttle bars to work with eight throttle bodies in unison, adjust and correct as needed...Make it all reliable..
4) TPS sensor maybe you can trick it or leave it be, I don't know..
5) TB Vacume lines need to sealed or re-routed.
6) Convert the stock snorkel tube into a huge funel tube design that is sealed and air tight over all the eight throttle bodies.. To insure a steady idle while keeping the stock ecu and MAF intact....
7) Start the car and pray the idle holds steady and or doesn't stall out, this all depends on the airflow meter reads to the ECU, air leaks, etc......
I am sure I am forgeting some other minor detials...Does that sound about right?... Maybe it's just me but it doesn't sound all that easy... There is a lot of custom work needed and probably a lot of trouble shooting to consider... If it all works out I like the idea of it all... I would sure want to see some gains for all the trouble though and not just more throttle response..
I have good throttle reponse now with the single TB, Torque converter stall rate change and nitrous...
JustenGT8
New Member
Jibbby, the only reason the plenum pre TB needs to be sealed is to keep dust etc out....leaks would have no effect on idle at all.
This can and has been done many times. Some here have the skills to do it cheap, some have to get others to do the work which will not be cheap.
If you are stuck with n/a then ITBs are part of the equation for the best setup.
This can and has been done many times. Some here have the skills to do it cheap, some have to get others to do the work which will not be cheap.
If you are stuck with n/a then ITBs are part of the equation for the best setup.
Justen, if I were to remove my Injen snorkel tube that is strapped down to the throttle body now and just set it in place in front of the throttle body the motor will idle for a second and then immediately stall out... Just like when trying to spray clean the throttle body when the engine is running, you need to keep the idle high to keep it from stalling as you spray..
NEVER SET ON N/A - are you crazy? Boost is king with small liter motors or any motors for that matter.... However, always interested in the possibities of a certain mod on the 1uz-fe's..... If it is really as easy as like everyone is saying then I may just go with ITB's since it is so cheap too...Why not?
I just don't think it is that easy as everyone is making it out to be...Doable but not easy... I am really curious as to what gains one would expect on 1uz-fe motor when switching from the stock single throttle body to these 8 independant throttle bodies with the MAF still intact...
Can anyone throw a guess out? Striker ? Please don't say just Faster THROTTLE RESPONSE either....
Jake Breyck
New Member
Jibby i wouldnt recomend you try it. I dont see that working out too well.
here let me quote justin becouse this was a great statment you may have missed.
here let me quote justin becouse this was a great statment you may have missed.
Justen, I think Jibbby is thinking to keep a MAF upstream of that plenum. So if you had an air leak after the MAF it wouldn't be good.
I believe both BMW and Ferrari and maybe others, ran or run systems like this? ITB's at or near each head for best response, then a plenum on top of each bank of ITB's followed by a snorkel with the MAF in it and finally an air filter with a cool air intake. So a Vee motor would have two plenums, two snorkels, two MAF's, etc.
For me, this defeats one of the attractions of ITB's, which is their visual appeal, because they'll be hidden under the plenums. Still, it may be a more practical way to do ITB's for a street driven car.
Jake Breyck
New Member
20valve 4ag silver top, Pulser gtir sr20, and skyline GTR RB26s all had itbs with a plenum, and an air meter. Im affraded to mention the M3 becouse im unsure of the fuel system used but it did have a plenum atleast.
XR8tt
Active Member
One of the 6 cyl M series had indidual throttle bodies...
One thing hasn't been mentioned is idle control...
I'd like to see on road tests ? I'm sure throttle responce would be
better .. But after mid to upper would be interesting through std MAF ???
Seeing this is a revable motor and Toyota have made it a torque best.. Then shorter / bigger std style inlet counld be an option also??
If inly it was Chevy or Ford there would be heaps of options!!
Just check how short the runners are on Ford R series Trick flow compared to std.
One thing hasn't been mentioned is idle control...
I'd like to see on road tests ? I'm sure throttle responce would be
better .. But after mid to upper would be interesting through std MAF ???
Seeing this is a revable motor and Toyota have made it a torque best.. Then shorter / bigger std style inlet counld be an option also??
If inly it was Chevy or Ford there would be heaps of options!!
Just check how short the runners are on Ford R series Trick flow compared to std.
JustenGT8
New Member
Yeah emissions for sure..ITBs are notoriously unstable around idle on MAP and even when you get it apparently nice, emissions are still out the window.
and as you say, the visual appeal is ruined. For mine, it's the spine tingling induction roar that is ruined by a MAF setup
and as you say, the visual appeal is ruined. For mine, it's the spine tingling induction roar that is ruined by a MAF setup
Well, this is sorta on topic. Probably several here have already seen this photo over on the GT40s website, but just look at the intake ports on this Ferrari 360 Modena 5 valve head. Isn't this some artwork? The owner of the motor says this is straight from Ferrari - no porting done at all:
striker
New Member
Hey Jibby,
I haven't measured the gains on dyno, so I don't know if I gained anything substancial, but I certainly didn't loose, 0-60timer in the car showed 0.3 seconds faster, and 3 seconds faster lap times on the zandvoort F1 racetrack in holland, so
the thing most obvious with that conversion was the torque being there longer in the RPM range than with a stock manifold,
but most important: gas response was through the roof compared to a stock 4age, blib the throttle and instant power at the wheels, which prooved kind of tricky on wet track and worn out dunlop tyres....:11:
I was fiorst also pretty skeptical about wether this would work on a stock toyota ECU, but it ran just as nice exept for Idle which is pretty tricky to set up using only ITB's without any idle stepper motor or something.
Maintenance wise there's noting else as far as I used it, just one air cone filter to replace and sometimes the airbox would come of for inspection and balancing the throttle-valves (only to get a good set-up once it was Ok I never looked at the set-screws again) when it was of I cleaned the TB's with a little cloth and wd40, not much dirt, but since the box was off anyway.
One thing: I didn't have power brakes on the car (the yellow sylva striker in my avatar) but both R1 and Busa ITB's have vacuum lines after the valves, so if for a 1uzfe all 8 would be put into a closed canister you could feed of that.
same goes for PCV and EGR, I took the EGR system of the 4age, so if you'll use it you might experience a little more dirt going in the ITB's, for the PCV system use a seperator/catch tank you'll be fine.
indeed I was talking AFM or MAF, Map sersored system might be a little harder to get going right but you still should be able to do so.
I think one could even get a 1uzfe to run on 2 seperate 4age 20V ECU's but some radical thinking in the sensor department should be done.
almost all 8 and 12 cylinder BMW engines have it that way stock.
Grtz Thomas
I haven't measured the gains on dyno, so I don't know if I gained anything substancial, but I certainly didn't loose, 0-60timer in the car showed 0.3 seconds faster, and 3 seconds faster lap times on the zandvoort F1 racetrack in holland, so
the thing most obvious with that conversion was the torque being there longer in the RPM range than with a stock manifold,
but most important: gas response was through the roof compared to a stock 4age, blib the throttle and instant power at the wheels, which prooved kind of tricky on wet track and worn out dunlop tyres....:11:
I was fiorst also pretty skeptical about wether this would work on a stock toyota ECU, but it ran just as nice exept for Idle which is pretty tricky to set up using only ITB's without any idle stepper motor or something.
Maintenance wise there's noting else as far as I used it, just one air cone filter to replace and sometimes the airbox would come of for inspection and balancing the throttle-valves (only to get a good set-up once it was Ok I never looked at the set-screws again) when it was of I cleaned the TB's with a little cloth and wd40, not much dirt, but since the box was off anyway.
One thing: I didn't have power brakes on the car (the yellow sylva striker in my avatar) but both R1 and Busa ITB's have vacuum lines after the valves, so if for a 1uzfe all 8 would be put into a closed canister you could feed of that.
same goes for PCV and EGR, I took the EGR system of the 4age, so if you'll use it you might experience a little more dirt going in the ITB's, for the PCV system use a seperator/catch tank you'll be fine.
indeed I was talking AFM or MAF, Map sersored system might be a little harder to get going right but you still should be able to do so.
I think one could even get a 1uzfe to run on 2 seperate 4age 20V ECU's but some radical thinking in the sensor department should be done.
almost all 8 and 12 cylinder BMW engines have it that way stock.
Grtz Thomas
striker
New Member
Hmmm strange for some reason I could'nt see all iof the posts on page three, so I responded to Jibby's last post on page 2 alone,
Almost all BMW M series have ITB's closed airbox over that and a big a** AFM.
Idle can be set with the bypass screws,
what'sit anyway nowadays didn't anyone have fun with a set of weber DCOE's and an old boat anchor ford kent crossflow or VW boxer anymore? (I'm only 28 yo but I have) no nothing to keep a nice steady Idle but not that hard to set up.
I have no air metering system on my 20V, it's in "Alpha N" mode, opertaing on TPS Temperatures crank-position and RPM alone, Idle is set with the throttlevalves themselves because I don't have the Idle stepper on it. it cold starts at 700rpm, and after a few minutes tops out at 900rpm steady as a rock. this has been done with the little tube in ear process and measuered later on to check my hearing :jester: (must be said I'm a sound engineer by profession)
I have no airbox whatsoever, just 4 bellmouths with filters on the, justin induction roar is enourmous hihi
@John (cribjj),
That 360 port looks remarkebly like an Yamaha R1 intake port, which side of the engine is this BTW, looks like the intake trackt is inbetween both camshafts looking by the angle of the valvestems compared to the port?
or is it the bank on the side of which the foto was taken?
still wonder how steep the intake angle could be made on a 92 non vvt 1uz head. I might have a go myself.
Grtz Thomas
Almost all BMW M series have ITB's closed airbox over that and a big a** AFM.
Idle can be set with the bypass screws,
what'sit anyway nowadays didn't anyone have fun with a set of weber DCOE's and an old boat anchor ford kent crossflow or VW boxer anymore? (I'm only 28 yo but I have) no nothing to keep a nice steady Idle but not that hard to set up.
I have no air metering system on my 20V, it's in "Alpha N" mode, opertaing on TPS Temperatures crank-position and RPM alone, Idle is set with the throttlevalves themselves because I don't have the Idle stepper on it. it cold starts at 700rpm, and after a few minutes tops out at 900rpm steady as a rock. this has been done with the little tube in ear process and measuered later on to check my hearing :jester: (must be said I'm a sound engineer by profession)
I have no airbox whatsoever, just 4 bellmouths with filters on the, justin induction roar is enourmous hihi
@John (cribjj),
That 360 port looks remarkebly like an Yamaha R1 intake port, which side of the engine is this BTW, looks like the intake trackt is inbetween both camshafts looking by the angle of the valvestems compared to the port?
or is it the bank on the side of which the foto was taken?
still wonder how steep the intake angle could be made on a 92 non vvt 1uz head. I might have a go myself.
Grtz Thomas
Attachments
Jake, thank you again for the vote of confidence in another wonderful post of yours.....Are you always such an arse hole?.... If you don't have anything good or positive to say or add why don't you just not post.. It just makes you look more stupid which we all know you are not..Grow up man....:cop:
Thanks for all the info Striker...It just seems to me it would make better sense to go Map and clean up the top of the engine altogether and just go ahead and delete the MAF and all the other crap to go along with it...Then go with the ITB's...That for sure would yeild the best overall intake results anyway when deciding to go with the ITB's... That's just my take on the whole thing...
However, Striker your points are well noted...
However, Striker your points are well noted...
Excellent points made Justen...My sediments exactly....
