1UZ vs. 3UZ Heads (Worked ie: Ported)
- Thread starter rocked
- Start date
The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
. spoilers help too. and i think the only cars that where powerful enough to spin the wheels off where top fuel dragsters, back before they beefed up the rims by regulation.
It's really tough to get a street driven MKIV Supra down below 3000 lbs. I've got a friend who has the certified weigh scale tickets to prove he's done it, along with all the invoices of what it cost him to achieve it. He's one of only a handful of people in the US who have done it.
John
"look" at the ports? what will that do?
at 3psi of +ve manifold pressure (one whole compression point) all flow figures from a head bench are irrelevant. you change swirl characteristics, which changes squish characteristics, which changes the VE of the engine, which effects torque, which effects power...and so on and so forth.
study the short turn on a 1UZ head vs a 2JZ head. does anything "look" different there?
have a "look" at the combustion chamber shape in relation to the sparkplug position. again, notice any differences?
you will find that the ports are fine, maybe need the roof raising slightly.
you will also find the combustion chambers are fine too.
hell, you don't even need bigger valves to make that kinda power you're after - just lots of lift (like 10.5mm).
if you want big power reliably, you need to lower your static CR (but not too low), use H beam or similar rods, pump in a lot of very cool boost (like 2bar over ambient), have excellent spark and fuel control, find some better cams, disconnect the VVT, and if turbocharged use the largest wastegate you can buy (62mm?) to better control the exhaust gasses.
you could see 1200hp with that combo, in theory. i say that because i have never built such an engine but i would say this is a minimum.
the key to power is torque and revs.
and lots of it.
C
cowboy bebop
Guest
HAHAHAHAHA...you're funny....
Trust me, from experience...the BIG HP, is good. On the street, at the track, and everywhere in between.
Trust me, from experience...the BIG HP, is good. On the street, at the track, and everywhere in between.
Lol I'm talking about using and making big power, I can get 1U cams 
, but, yea I'm not going for 600rwhp street car here boys, anything below 1000 bores me in all honesty and that's not being cocky or arrogant, I have driven the cars, I have a goal specifically for my project and I'm looking to make over 1200 with the 1U, so, I think I'm going to use the 98+ 1u setup, looks to be the best, if your going out of the box yes the 2u look great, but I'm going for more than that.
No doubt in my mind the aluminum block can hold it without issue. Just looking on what I was going to invest in for heads, and I'm a believer now that the 98+ 1u heads are where I'm going to go.
Thanks for the info,wasn't trying to offend anyone but the 1U head design is awful in the pre 98, look at the ports, i think even the 2j has better ports, I mean yes it's fine for anything street wise, but I'm talking about making big power, not a street car, well, still streetable, but not a basical every day build..
and to the on/off supra clutch comment, buddy, I've had and driven 1200+hp supras, vipers, and a camaro, vettes over 800hp, the RPS clutch carbon carbon, I've sat in traffic for 4hrs, car was making over 900hp on c16, slipping it up hill no problems, tilton, same thing. High hp with the technology we have today, if you have the octane, cubic inches and or both, you can make anything streetable up till about 1500hp and then, throw an auto in it lol and yes, that's streetable!, i mean anything 's streetable, just depends on your opinion, ****, a 1500hp supra on the getrag and a tilton is still streetable if you mean by driving around, you can lay into it with good tires, but dont expect not to spin.
, but, yea I'm not going for 600rwhp street car here boys, anything below 1000 bores me in all honesty and that's not being cocky or arrogant, I have driven the cars, I have a goal specifically for my project and I'm looking to make over 1200 with the 1U, so, I think I'm going to use the 98+ 1u setup, looks to be the best, if your going out of the box yes the 2u look great, but I'm going for more than that.No doubt in my mind the aluminum block can hold it without issue. Just looking on what I was going to invest in for heads, and I'm a believer now that the 98+ 1u heads are where I'm going to go.
Thanks for the info,wasn't trying to offend anyone but the 1U head design is awful in the pre 98, look at the ports, i think even the 2j has better ports, I mean yes it's fine for anything street wise, but I'm talking about making big power, not a street car, well, still streetable, but not a basical every day build..
and to the on/off supra clutch comment, buddy, I've had and driven 1200+hp supras, vipers, and a camaro, vettes over 800hp, the RPS clutch carbon carbon, I've sat in traffic for 4hrs, car was making over 900hp on c16, slipping it up hill no problems, tilton, same thing. High hp with the technology we have today, if you have the octane, cubic inches and or both, you can make anything streetable up till about 1500hp and then, throw an auto in it lol and yes, that's streetable!, i mean anything 's streetable, just depends on your opinion, ****, a 1500hp supra on the getrag and a tilton is still streetable if you mean by driving around, you can lay into it with good tires, but dont expect not to spin.
jibby
New Member
You guys are nuts!! Four digit horse power in a driveable street car is absolutely frightning:yikes: I believe I mentioned this in a prior post a while back that I also thought anything over 650hp in a lexus/soarer/or supra would be too much for those rear tires to grip. I mean these cars are fairly light in weight to begin with. Maybe the exception being a heavy viper with those massive rear tires.. Blindly thinking I would have to agree with Anaema on this one.
Example: I get my rears spinning fairly well all the way up to 20-30mph with just a measly 400hp. Infact, I honestly cannot give my car full throttle with nos from a dead stop. I will go no where fast and just spinout and that is with an automatic transmission and LSD, I kid you not. Now double or triple that power output, man the wheels might start flying off the car, no?:scratchch However, since neither Anaema or I have ever owned or driven a 1000hp+ street car we should not assume that is over kill from what is being said... I could possibly concieve cruising at 100mph and giving full throttle then maybe you can grip some and tame these wicked beasts with the massive horse power...maybe??
Like lex said, most people on this forum would be content with a true 500hp in a driveable street car.. Guess what? I am one of those people... Baby steps....Wow, however that does sound like a rush. Good job with cars fellas, I envy your rides......
In closing I must say I did get the chance to see a few monster cars today as I drove past LAS VEGAS on my way to UTAH this afternoon and saw the NASCAR series. Talk about a turnout, the highways were crowded and the race track areas were filled with thousands of people. We are definetely not the only motor heads out there interested in fast cars that is for sure...sorry for the story guys....
Example: I get my rears spinning fairly well all the way up to 20-30mph with just a measly 400hp. Infact, I honestly cannot give my car full throttle with nos from a dead stop. I will go no where fast and just spinout and that is with an automatic transmission and LSD, I kid you not. Now double or triple that power output, man the wheels might start flying off the car, no?:scratchch However, since neither Anaema or I have ever owned or driven a 1000hp+ street car we should not assume that is over kill from what is being said... I could possibly concieve cruising at 100mph and giving full throttle then maybe you can grip some and tame these wicked beasts with the massive horse power...maybe??
Like lex said, most people on this forum would be content with a true 500hp in a driveable street car.. Guess what? I am one of those people... Baby steps....Wow, however that does sound like a rush. Good job with cars fellas, I envy your rides......
In closing I must say I did get the chance to see a few monster cars today as I drove past LAS VEGAS on my way to UTAH this afternoon and saw the NASCAR series. Talk about a turnout, the highways were crowded and the race track areas were filled with thousands of people. We are definetely not the only motor heads out there interested in fast cars that is for sure...sorry for the story guys....
you know Vipers and Corvettes are lighter than both the SC400 and the Mk4 Supra dont you? both the domestics weigh in at around 3100. the Supra is what? 3400? besides, you can always get a widebody kitjibby said:
. spoilers help too. and i think the only cars that where powerful enough to spin the wheels off where top fuel dragsters, back before they beefed up the rims by regulation.
cjsupra90
New Member
actually for 06, the vipers are rated at 3410 dry weight and the vettes are from 3100 to 3200. These are manufacture claims (dodge and chevrolet). I know the old vipers were up there to. My neighbor has a 2000 GTS coupe and it weighed in at 3540 full of fluids and full tank of gas, but no driver
lol my supra is <3000 lol , they arn't THAT heavy..
and it all depends on suspension, I've hooked 1000hp in a supra on 275DRs , it will hook you have to shock the tires, and you have to make sure your suspension as i said is setup for that, you can't take a road race setup that doesn't let the car settle and expect it to not spin, or wheel hop. It's all in the setup. this is getting off topic though boys lol..
and it all depends on suspension, I've hooked 1000hp in a supra on 275DRs , it will hook you have to shock the tires, and you have to make sure your suspension as i said is setup for that, you can't take a road race setup that doesn't let the car settle and expect it to not spin, or wheel hop. It's all in the setup. this is getting off topic though boys lol..
jibby
New Member
I couldn't possibly imagine the vipers weighing less then my sc... On the other hand the vette's I could understand maybe being lighter in weight due to the light weight fiber glass chasis... I am also aware of the traction applications, such as gearing, coilover suspension, tires, etc... Still 1000 horsepower in a 3000 pound car is still alot of horsepower to tame....:wizard: Can you say squirly and sideways off the line when hammered boys and girls.??...
There is a famous old saying "too good is no good" atleast when it comes to women perhaps cars are a different story though...
fftopic: We kinda derailed the topic..So I will make an attempt to bring it back on topic...So from what I have read and heard so far is that there may not be that big of a difference between the flow of all the v8 Toyota block heads.. I would imagine the stock 4.7 V8 heads (Tundra) would most likely be the best flowing toyota heads available today?
There is a famous old saying "too good is no good" atleast when it comes to women perhaps cars are a different story though...
fftopic: We kinda derailed the topic..So I will make an attempt to bring it back on topic...So from what I have read and heard so far is that there may not be that big of a difference between the flow of all the v8 Toyota block heads.. I would imagine the stock 4.7 V8 heads (Tundra) would most likely be the best flowing toyota heads available today?
jibby
New Member
Forgot about that, that is right....
I wanna see Cowboy Beebop VS. Rocked in the quarter with these 1000hp beasts... We will call this the battle of the baddest Supra's around.... Man, I really get jacked up hearing about these Supra's of yours, I really got to step it up some with my Lex, I feel unworthy....:notworthy
I wanna see Cowboy Beebop VS. Rocked in the quarter with these 1000hp beasts... We will call this the battle of the baddest Supra's around.... Man, I really get jacked up hearing about these Supra's of yours, I really got to step it up some with my Lex, I feel unworthy....:notworthy
last time i checked, the Vettes stopped using fiberglass body panels after the C4, maybe even before that. the new Z06 primarily uses carbon fiber and aluminum, not fiberglass. the C6 uses mostly steel i think.jibby said:I couldn't possibly imagine the vipers weighing less then my sc... On the other hand the vette's I could understand maybe being lighter in weight due to the light weight fiber glass chasis... I am also aware of the traction applications, such as gearing, coilover suspension, tires, etc... Still 1000 horsepower in a 3000 pound car is still alot of horsepower to tame....:wizard: Can you say squirly and sideways off the line when hammered boys and girls.??...
There is a famous old saying that say's "too good is no good" atleast when it comes to women perhaps cars are a different story though...
Getting back on track. :redface:
chrisman has it down
Zuffen & cjsupra90 have it nailed to a T.
Flow benches... They are, in my 100% non-professional, but real world experience having opinion... Only good to match the ports that last bit after everything is said & done. For anyone that has an oz of experiance porting modern heads using the same rough design for every port, it's going to be close across the board.
The actual port flow is only half the battle in head porting. Port velocity is just as important as the raw pressure drop through the head is. If anything it is more important because very few people give a passing thought about velocity.
Gasket matching is likely *the* most popular thought/option to anyone not "in the know" of head porting. It does provide good flow number increases... Put the head on an engine (Even to the extint of 10-20% flowbench gains) what happens to the power? Not very much.
Raw flow simply doesn't do that dang much. If it did, big intakes would provide huge power gains, as well as 8" cat-back exhausts.
This is why the biggest power gains during any porting & polishing job is going to fall between three general tasks:
1) Cleaning up the short side radius
2) Cleaning up the entire bowl area
3) Unshrouding the valves
"Wallowing out ports" & gasket matching, are not on that short list.
chrisman has it down
Zuffen & cjsupra90 have it nailed to a T.
Flow benches... They are, in my 100% non-professional, but real world experience having opinion... Only good to match the ports that last bit after everything is said & done. For anyone that has an oz of experiance porting modern heads using the same rough design for every port, it's going to be close across the board.
The actual port flow is only half the battle in head porting. Port velocity is just as important as the raw pressure drop through the head is. If anything it is more important because very few people give a passing thought about velocity.
Gasket matching is likely *the* most popular thought/option to anyone not "in the know" of head porting. It does provide good flow number increases... Put the head on an engine (Even to the extint of 10-20% flowbench gains) what happens to the power? Not very much.
Raw flow simply doesn't do that dang much. If it did, big intakes would provide huge power gains, as well as 8" cat-back exhausts.
This is why the biggest power gains during any porting & polishing job is going to fall between three general tasks:
1) Cleaning up the short side radius
2) Cleaning up the entire bowl area
3) Unshrouding the valves
"Wallowing out ports" & gasket matching, are not on that short list.
Rocked, is that a dedicated racecar you have?rocked said:
It's really tough to get a street driven MKIV Supra down below 3000 lbs. I've got a friend who has the certified weigh scale tickets to prove he's done it, along with all the invoices of what it cost him to achieve it. He's one of only a handful of people in the US who have done it.
John
Pro
New Member
rocked said:
"look" at the ports? what will that do?
at 3psi of +ve manifold pressure (one whole compression point) all flow figures from a head bench are irrelevant. you change swirl characteristics, which changes squish characteristics, which changes the VE of the engine, which effects torque, which effects power...and so on and so forth.
study the short turn on a 1UZ head vs a 2JZ head. does anything "look" different there?
have a "look" at the combustion chamber shape in relation to the sparkplug position. again, notice any differences?
you will find that the ports are fine, maybe need the roof raising slightly.
you will also find the combustion chambers are fine too.
hell, you don't even need bigger valves to make that kinda power you're after - just lots of lift (like 10.5mm).
if you want big power reliably, you need to lower your static CR (but not too low), use H beam or similar rods, pump in a lot of very cool boost (like 2bar over ambient), have excellent spark and fuel control, find some better cams, disconnect the VVT, and if turbocharged use the largest wastegate you can buy (62mm?) to better control the exhaust gasses.
you could see 1200hp with that combo, in theory. i say that because i have never built such an engine but i would say this is a minimum.
the key to power is torque and revs.
and lots of it.
Look at the 2j head and the path to the valve, then look at vq35 head, then look at a pre 98 1uz head and then a post 98 1uz head...vs. a 2uz head. 9:1 Comp, forged steel h/ibeam whatever your flavor..and..50lbs of boost on a 101+ and it'll make nice power, i'm not talking about 1200, a 2j will do 1200, you approach problems when you start hitting 1500 and that's what I'm talking about making, then every little bit counts to make more power, of course the ports are fine making 1000. Enough boost an engine will make power. I know what is required to make big power i've done it many times from american v8s,to imports, I was just curious in diving into the toyo v8 setup what everyone has achieved, and from the looks, street yes, race/big power, not many have charted into that land..
a set of cams, a motec, no vvti, and one wastegate you don't need the largest, more boost you run buddy less you need to bypass... if you run 45lbs at the turbine max you in theory don't need to bypass very much more air, turbo won't make naymore boost..
a set of cams, a motec, no vvti, and one wastegate you don't need the largest, more boost you run buddy less you need to bypass...
if you run 45lbs at the turbine max you in theory don't need to bypass very much more air, turbo won't make naymore boost..
turboteener
New Member
Contrary to popular opinion flow is very improtant. You have to move air through the motor to make power. The new Z06 heads will flow 360+ CFM out of the box. Straight from Chevy. I have driven one and it is not a dog on the street. You can putter around below 2K all day long and have no problems at all. The minute you mash that gas it will rev like there is no tomorrow. There is no bogging or poor manners.
Now seeing as how I haven't studied the 1UZ heads, any more than to look at them as I am moving the Frame Jig around in the shop, I don't see any major problems other than that retarted offset in the last ports. That is nothing I can't fix with a TIG torch and a little aluminum. Once I get this car built I will pick up another engine a proceed to do some serious research.
Of course I could just pick up an LS6 and make three times the power for half the money and 3/4 the wieght.
Now seeing as how I haven't studied the 1UZ heads, any more than to look at them as I am moving the Frame Jig around in the shop, I don't see any major problems other than that retarted offset in the last ports. That is nothing I can't fix with a TIG torch and a little aluminum. Once I get this car built I will pick up another engine a proceed to do some serious research.
Of course I could just pick up an LS6 and make three times the power for half the money and 3/4 the wieght.
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