Project Thread Supercharged Supra

[Zuffen]

John,

All interesting stuff.

Makes me happy I went for 8.5:1 pistons as even with a bit of a head skim I'm sure things will be sweet.

Funny you mention the manifold.

I was looking at my Richwood one yesterday thinking there will be a bit of port matching to be done. I may give the corner ports a little more attention.

My engine man now has all my parts so hopefully he will start work soon.

 

[scotturnot]

John,
Why you are down, would it make sense to O-ring the block or heads? I know that is what I always did on my boosted fords and high compression Harleys. Dont know why it wouldnt apply here as well. Just my 2 cents.

 

[cribbj]

Rod, although I had high hopes for the high compression motor, I'd only intended to boost it to 10 psi or so under the old plan with the Eaton. But then, as soon as we put that 2.2 litre Opcon on it, it was a whole new game. I knew that supercharger had the potential to put out 13-15 psi of boost, and I was in trouble.

I probably should've dropped the compression then, but I thought I'd chance it, seeing that a number of folks like Justen, etc. are getting away with it, and with stock internals! So I figured my setup with forgies and ARP studs should have handled it OK, even on our pump 93 (RON+MON)/2.

Well, I was wrong <sigh>, so we're dropping back to 9.0:1 for the next installment of this little supercharged Supra soap opera. Thank God it was only the head gaskets that went. It could have been a LOT worse.

Cyberdiamond, thanks for the idea of the A/W exchanger, but I'm just not ready to put in all the additional piping, etc. that's required for that. I'll continue with the M/W injection, and if I can get my hands on one of the dual port actuators for the supercharger's bypass valve, I'll do some boost control also.

Scott, funny you should mention o-ringing. Mitch was telling us about a new type of block o-ring that AEM are using in their racecar. It's nitrogen filled, so it never takes a "set" like the copper rings do. It's NASA technology and works very well for high boost applications, however I wouldn't think of calling this "high boost". But it's an interesting idea if somebody wanted to do 25-35 psi of boost.

 

[JustenGT8]

That's det that got you Cribbj for sure, so your head stud upgrade won't be needed once you have the det issue sorted. Good insurance of course.

Combo of fuel knock resistance, the SC efficiency, no IC and the static compression....all added up to too much. On each count my setup is 'covered' so we are running very different engines and hence no det for me.

3rd time is a charm and i'm sure it's still going to be a weapon package once screwed back together.

 

[cribbj]

Just heard from Mitch; he made it back home to LA, and had a comment/correction on my writeup:

"Please note that the flecks that you say are aluminum on the head are actually places where the carbon is pitted allowing you to see the aluminum underneath. In the last picture you can see where I scratched off the carbon with my thumbnail in an area of the pitting to look beneath it. There was no aluminum erosion from the cylinder head or pistons that I could see. If I'm not mistaken, they should just need a little clean up before they will be good to go."

He also included some reference information for these gas filled o-rings: http://www.helicoflex.com/

Since the engine is down, I was thinking it's probably a good opportunity to do a couple of "insurance" type mods, such as fitting oil squirters and possibly converting to a shim under bucket setup for the valves.

We all know Mr. Toyota is a big believer in oil squirters for piston crown cooling on all the Toyota high performance turbo motors, and even a few NA's (the 2UZ for example), so for an OEM to do something extra like this means there's good reasons for it. Too, since we're removing material from the crowns to reduce compression, we're certainly not strengthening them, so the squirters should help.

For the shim under bucket setup, I'd sure like to hear from any of you who are running it, and how you like it? The new cams won't have huge amounts of lift, but this 1UZ motor is known to occasionally spit shims after cam and spring mods, even on street cars.

 

[DaveH]

John,

Thats one incredible build you have going on, sorry to hear about the bad luck with the head gaskets. What were the diameter of the ARP's that you had in there? Do you need to drill/tap the block and head to get the 7/16" studs in there?

I'm running the shimless buckets in my 2j and they work great. You simply measure the thickness of your current bucket/shim and then get a shimless bucket in that thickness. After that they just drop right in. (just make sure you measure twice and order once LOL). I made one mistake measuring and after installing the shimless buckets found that I had one valve out of clearance, so after that I had to remove the cam once again to change out that bucket.

 

[cribbj]

Dave, many thanks; yeah it was a bit of bad planning on my part to build the motor for 10:1, then put a SC on there capable of making 16-20 psi. I was originally going to put the Eaton M112 on it, but it was huge and would have required major surgery like David's doing, so I changed to an Opcon to make it all fit.

Then I wanted to put a bigger pulley on the Opcon, but Richwood advised I'd surely have hood clearance problems with anything bigger than what's on there.

So, although the odds were pretty poor, I went ahead and gambled, and the tolerances worked against me. The original builder said he'd actually built the motor to 9.5:1, so I thought I had a bit of room to play with, but when Dennis measured the piston heights and cc'd the chambers, it actually turned out to be 10.2-10.4:1.

Glad to hear the shimless buckets are working out on your Supra motor. Unfortunately I'm changing cams at the same time so we're starting from scratch.

I've got a 2UZ shim-under-bucket sample coming from Curt, so we'll see how those fit on the 1UZ valves and retainers. May have to go to custom shims if those don't sit right.

 

[cribbj]

My dual port bypass valve actuator arrived from Whipple yesterday and I did a bit of testing on it today. Physically it appears to be identical to the actuator that's on the bypass now. Could I be lucky enough that it's going to bolt right on?

It's more sensitive than I thought - on the vacuum (top) port, it cracks open nearly as soon as negative pressure is put on it, and it's wide open by 750mmHg.

On the pressure (bottom) port it's even more sensitive - it cracks at 1 psi or so of boost and is wide open at 6-7 psi.

It ought to be interesting setting this thing up as a boost controller....

Here's some pics - that's an inch ruler BTW:

p.s. Dave, those were 10mm ARP studs that were in the block before.

 

[XR8tt]

Restrictive exhaust on high comp boosted engine is bad news..
If the flame doesn't escape totally from chamber ??
Then there's a big chance of this flame causing detonation on next compression stroke... Turbo's runing a small turbine housing is the same...
Its not rocket science to CC the chambers and do a rough compression check ?? Grease,clear plastic plate with hole in it and syringe with cc on it...Even if you fill camber on level, then m/t into a measuring container...

 

[4000GT]

Dont the 1NZ and 2NZ shimless buckets fit?

 

[cribbj]

Restrictive exhaust on high comp boosted engine is bad news..

Yeah, definitely need to run some better headers next time.....

Its not rocket science to CC the chambers and do a rough compression check ?? Grease,clear plastic plate with hole in it and syringe with cc on it...Even if you fill camber on level, then m/t into a measuring container...

One of the benefits of hindsight ;-). I contacted the builder before we put the SC on it and he said the build sheet for my motor indicated a measured 9.5:1 compression, so we ran it. Just another reason not to use a certain engine builder in Austin, TX again.

Dont the 1NZ and 2NZ shimless buckets fit?

Dunno - when Erol and I had a little email exchange about sourcing shimless buckets last summer, he was looking for either SZ or NZ shimless buckets. He wound up sourcing SZ buckets locally for his race motor. Although my preference would be for the shim under bucket setup, it's going to cost around 30-40% more than a shimless bucket setup.

Here in the US we can source the shimless buckets from the Prius (1NZ-FXE motor in all years), or the Echo (1NZ-FE motor from 2000 to 2005), or the Yaris (1NZ-FE motor from 2006 to current).

The SZ motors are apparently a collaboration between Toyota and Daihatsu, but we don't get them in the US in Toyotas. I understand this motor is in the Yaris in other countries, however.

Neither do we get the 1.3l 2NZ motor, which again is available in other countries in the Yaris, Platz and Vitz models.

 

[scotturnot]

Not to change the subject John but I know you have been doing a lot of testing with Meth setups. Just wondering what your opinion was on the Aquamist race version pump/setup.

Looks like the pump is made by ERL in England.
Flow rate is 250ml/minute @ 100PSI minimum
13.6VDC @ 11A 1min on/off
(holding one in my hand so I am reading off it)

 

[cribbj]

Scott, I'm no authority on these M/W systems - that would be 1ndecent as he wrote his university thesis on the subject (and it's posted on here somewhere). He & Justen have more real world experience with them than most. 1ndecent in particular has experience with the Aquamist setup.

The rule of thumb for these things is apparently around 50 ml/min delivery per 100 HP, but it should have peak delivery at peak torque, not peak HP.

I also understand that the higher the pressure of your system, the better (finer) the atomisation. So a 100 psi system is better than a 50, and a 150 psi system is better than a 100, etc.

I've pretty much settled on the Shurflo 150psi pump running into a Snow red or purple nozzle, which is delivering around 400ml/min @ 150-175 psi at the nozzle. We've already PWM'd that pump with the AEM during the dyno testing and the PWM control seems to work fine. I'd like to measure how much M/W this thing puts out as a percentage of duty cycle, but that'll be a project for the next time.

 

[JustenGT8]

Not to change the subject John but I know you have been doing a lot of testing with Meth setups. Just wondering what your opinion was on the Aquamist race version pump/setup.

Looks like the pump is made by ERL in England.
Flow rate is 250ml/minute @ 100PSI minimum
13.6VDC @ 11A 1min on/off
(holding one in my hand so I am reading off it)

The aquamist pump is a great setup in the right situation. I ran this on my turbo 4 cyl GrpA to great effect...brought inlet temps at the track dowen from 50+ deg C to 33 deg C.

2 major issues though. Pump can't lift very well and also has to be close (within 1 m) of the nozzle to get best performance. This means the pump pretty much has to be in the bay.

doesn't work well as the 2nd issue is they can't handle heat and the internal switching fries very easily....pump still works but need to revert to an external switch.

So, if you can place it in a cool spot in the bay or maybe in car on the firewall? and it can be close to the reservoir then it's a good performer.

 

[celos23]

that 2jz is beautiful what a big turbo this must of had some power

 

[cribbj]

Just an update, my UZ has now been completely rebuilt from the last dyno session. The damage from the detonation was worse than we originally thought, as the rod bearings looked hammered, as well as the valves & valve seats.

Bottomline, it's now sporting a set of Lextreme rods, all new bearings, fresh valve job, and slightly milled pistons to reduce the compression to 9.0:1.

Plus Dennis put 12mm ARP studs in the block, and fit piston squirters to keep the crowns cool.

We're shooting for the next dyno session to be around middle of June, and will also be running Lextreme Stage 1 cams, and S&S headers this time. Hopefully these mods should shift the peak torque up a few hundred RPM.

Still running the stock bucket under shim setup for now, but will be changing to a shim under bucket or shimless bucket setup after breakin.

Anyone have a big 1UZ shim collection here in the US that I could borrow? We actually need to reshim two motors, but will return all shims after we run the motors.

Here's some shots of the squirters:

 

[JustenGT8]

Good to hear it's nearly back on it's feet again John....fingers crossed for better results this time.

 

[cribbj]

Cheers Justen, yes fingers & toes crossed this time.....

BTW, we're in desperate need of a full set of shims for this 2nd motor. Can anyone spare some? I'd certainly like to borrow/rent/buy some.

Has anyone set up a shim bank on the US side?

 

[Zuffen]

John,

We tried to set one up here in Australia but it turned out the shims mostly discarded were the ones noone wanted.

I'll visit my engine man today and see what he has.

I don't mind posting over whats left over from my engine.

If anyone wants to forward me shims I'll send them with mine.

 

[XR8tt]

Use a billet cam with std size base circle.. Or cap / extend valve tip.....
Starting with longer valve stems helps also...