UZFE to GM Transmissions adaptor Plate

[Lextreme II]

Hey Gang,

Thanks to Zuffen and his help. We finally got the UZFE (1uzfe-3uzfe) to Chevy Transmission (TH350, TH375, TH400, 200-4R, 700-R4 and perhaps 4L600 or 4L65E) adaptor plate. I think the powerglide might work too at the same time GM version of the TKO or T56 might work also. I still need confirmation for most of the trannies. This is just rough plasma cut but will cnc if there is an interest in this. More info and the progress right here www.lextreme.com/th400.html

 

[Lextreme II]

Here are few GM trannies with the same bolt pattern:

Here are the four most popular automatics available from GM. All of these transmissions are fitted with the standard small-/big-block Chevy bellhousing bolt pattern. From left to right they include the TH350, the TH400, the TH200-4R and the TH700-R4. A quick way to differentiate the 350s and 400s from the later boxes is by the vacuum modulator. We didn’t include the Powerglide here because it is not a popular street automatic, although it’s certainly durable.

GM Tranny Specs:

GM Tranny Specs:

 

[bango]

This is very good news ,should fit all the tremec (GM Version) too..

 

[Lextreme II]

Here are some GM manual trasmission and bell housing. The first three pictures are the Tremec TKO 5 speed. This transmission is tough to handle 600 ft/lbs of torque. The last three pictures are the sexy T56 with 6 speed. I have one of this in my SVT Cobra. I believe its rated at 450 ft/lbs. One thing nice about the TKO is that it has three shifting location for different applications.

Brand New Price:
TKO600 is about $1,800- $2,000
T56 is about $2,000-$2,200

 

[bango]

Nice pics..don't know if 450 lb/ft will be enough for your 1000 hp idea,i recon the TKO 600 will take it..

 

[ChrisV]

is that a lockup torque coverter, and wil it work well with the 200R4? How did you figure on how deep it had to be to bolt onto the flexplate and still match the input shaft with the spacer plate? How precise is the alignment between trans and engine? Does it shake/vibtate at all?If I can't find a prkable clutch/flywhel setup for cheap, I may go this route instead, as 200R4s are cheap and will live just fine behind a stock 1UZ...

 

[cowboy bebop]

How precise is the alignment between trans and engine? Does it shake/vibtate at all?

I think we're all waiting for that answer... the question has never been wholeheartedly addressed.

Eric

 

[Lextreme II]

To answer ChrisV question:

The alignment was based on the custom torque converter we made. The TC was mounted to the stock flexplate and then we insert the transmission into the hub. The initial LEVY400 was about 1/8"-1/4" shorter then we need. So we modified again to make slightly longer to compensate for the adaptor plate also. When the transmission is fully inserted into the TC, there is not much or no play at all. After the transmission was stalled, we bolt it up to the plate since both the block and the transmission mounting surface is exactly 90 degrees.

I didnt use the high tech laser guided method because this process doesnt require this. People use those high tech techniques because there is no guide. For example, if you trying to make a adaptor plate without a proper fit torque convertor or clutch, then you have no referrence. Without any referrence, you will need the XYZ via laser. Personally i havent test this out yet in a live engine. Just the other plate with 6 speed. It hasnt been test out either. Therefore would it vibrate or align is still something the maker need to answer wholeheartly. As far as my is concern, i dont see any reason why it would not align. http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5320

 

[cowboy bebop]

I didnt use the high tech laser guided method because this process doesnt require this.

As far as my is concern, i dont see any reason why it would not align. http://

It looks like from the pictures that accuracy needs to be addressed. If you can slip bolts through to the other side, and install a nut, then you're holes are way off and wallowed out too large. The first time your plate is under serious Tq, your adapter plate will shift.

You should be able to have your bolt holes tapped, with yours bolts going in straight and true, with only .010"distance from the outer diameter of the bolt to the plate itself. Eyballing the plate and using punch holes will not supply nearly enough accuracy.

If this adapter would be for your own personal use, then good luck to you and you take your chances. But, since your tutorial was posted, and this is for the public, it needs to be perfect. You've got the right idea, why not go that extra step, and make it perfect? With something like this, it's either right or it is wrong. You've got the right idea, now you just have to get the right accuracy and measurements. It's not that difficult to do, and I dont' know why you're so against it.

Eric

 

[ChrisV]

To answer ChrisV question:

The alignment was based on the custom torque converter we made. The TC was mounted to the stock flexplate and then we insert the transmission into the hub. The initial LEVY400 was about 1/8"-1/4" shorter then we need. So we modified again to make slightly longer to compensate for the adaptor plate also. When the transmission is fully inserted into the TC, there is not much or no play at all. After the transmission was stalled, we bolt it up to the plate since both the block and the transmission mounting surface is exactly 90 degrees.

I didnt use the high tech laser guided method because this process doesnt require this. People use those high tech techniques because there is no guide. For example, if you trying to make a adaptor plate without a proper fit torque convertor or clutch, then you have no referrence. Without any referrence, you will need the XYZ via laser. Personally i havent test this out yet in a live engine. Just the other plate with 6 speed. It hasnt been test out either. Therefore would it vibrate or align is still something the maker need to answer wholeheartly. As far as my is concern, i dont see any reason why it would not align. http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5320

The reason I asked is that I did a similar thing with a different engine trans combo (using a Mazda 5 speed manual behind an old Ford I6). It looked fine, but apparently it was off by a couple thousandths of an inch and when you drive the car at about 40mph up the trans starts shaking due to the misalignment. It lines up with the splines fine in the clutch, but it seems to move it off an imperceptable amount when checking by eye. That's why I was asking if you had tested it on a running car to see if it vibrated. It's a very cool idea, though, and those trans are, like you say, dirt cheap (and not computer controlled, the best part!).

 

[Lextreme II]

It looks like from the pictures that accuracy needs to be addressed. If you can slip bolts through to the other side, and install a nut, then you're holes are way off and wallowed out too large. The first time your plate is under serious Tq, your adapter plate will shift.

You should be able to have your bolt holes tapped, with yours bolts going in straight and true, with only .010"distance from the outer diameter of the bolt to the plate itself. Eyballing the plate and using punch holes will not supply nearly enough accuracy.

If this adapter would be for your own personal use, then good luck to you and you take your chances. But, since your tutorial was posted, and this is for the public, it needs to be perfect. You've got the right idea, why not go that extra step, and make it perfect? With something like this, it's either right or it is wrong. You've got the right idea, now you just have to get the right accuracy and measurements. It's not that difficult to do, and I dont' know why you're so against it.

Eric

Eric,
We discuss this few weeks ago and its time to stop creating fear for people. I understand where you are coming from. Have you tested your V160 adaptor plate? Does it vibrate? How do we know its fully align? How do u align it? You never disclose your work and you are trying to create fear to readers. Thousands of adaptor plates were created that way. I am sure Zuffen can confirm this. You are trying to create fear therefore at the same time promoting your V160 product. As we all know u dont even have the clutch issue work out and we have doubts about your accuracy too. My tutorial show step by step how it was done.

The adaptor plate holes for the TH400 was drill after the transmission was installed. The holes was drilled using the transmission as a guide. Therefore the accuracy is as good as laser without clutch. You used different method because you didnt have any referrence or guide. Your plate was made without the clutch attached.

 

[cowboy bebop]

It was buried a few weeks ago, but never discussed. That would have been ok, but now others will be following your tutorial, and therefore making dangerous mistakes.

Eric,
How do we know its fully align? How do u align it?

In answer to your question, I will say that the adpater plate is aligned on the true points shared between the motor and the tranny. Those would be the dowl pins in relation to the horzontal plane, and the true center. You CAN'T align it properly by using the bolt holes as a guide.

Thousands of adaptor plates were created that way. I am sure Zuffen can confirm this.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything since what's produced by others has no bearing on our responcibility to producing an engine / tranny adpater the best way possible.

As we all know u dont even have the clutch issue work out and we have doubts about your accuracy too.

That's interesting because I ordered a 100% bolt on clutch/ flywheel assembly, due to arrive next week. I'll post pics of the V160 adapter once the last of the bolts are completed and show a step by step how it goes together, and how accurate it really is.

The adaptor plate holes for the TH400 was drill after the transmission was installed. The holes was drilled using the transmission as a guide. Therefore the accuracy is as good as laser without clutch. You used different method because you didnt have any referrence or guide. Your plate was made without the clutch attached.

Your bolt holes are wabbled out to allow the bolt to slide through, and he held on with hex nuts, so I'm a little confused as you your statement. Using the transmission as a guide is a little suspect since on your pics, there are no dowel pins shown. Even if they were they are only used to target the motor and tranny. If the measurment is off kilter to begin with, then they will serve to real purpose.

You are trying to create fear therefore at the same time promoting your V160 product.

No, no, no. You have a great idea. A GREAT idea. The TH400, and TH700R are a great tranny to put behind the 1uz. My V160 adapter really doesn't have much to do with your plate. Our main concern now is in other areas besides more adapter plates. You've got the run on the Th400 man, it's all you. What I'm doing is to ask the questions that everyone is asking me. I get IMs and e-mails from many who ask me the same things. If you're adpater works and is made properly with proper measurement, i.e. not homemade but professionaly manufactured, then it will be a real asset to the community.

Thanks man,

Eric

 

[Peewee]

Has anyone priced the CRS Adaptor plate?

AP 96 GM Turbo & P/G Auto to Toyota 4 Litre Quad Cam V8

http://www.rodshop.com.au/transmissions.htm

 

[Zuffen]

Peewee,

Last time I checked CRS said they don't make the adaptor.

I don't think they quite know what they do and don't make.

David/Eric,

I think you both have valid points.

These adaptors have to be accurate to less than 10thou of an inch, preferrably within 1 0r 2thou. Any slop will cause problems.

 

[turboandrew]

Just want to try to comment without starting a holy war here: You really need those dowel pins used on the adapter plate. The car manufacturers don't use those for grins; they are very important. You cannot rely on the bolts to stop the transmission from "twisting" from the engine. All manufactures' tranmission bolt holes have some play. The dowel pins are designed to have no play at all. Also, just my personal opinion, doing all of the mounting/drilling while the engine/plate/transmission are all together, in their normal position (all laying horizontally) seems like a bas situation (I'm not saying anyone did this, I don't know). Having the tranny centered with the spline into the torque converter with the transmission in its normal orientation preloads that input shaft spline with the weight of the tranny -that is not a potential problem I would not want right from the start.

I am all for encouraging projects like this, especially ones that are DIY and can save the owner some money, but I just want things like this to be safe and well engineered. Personally, I also like to stive for the spirit of engineering that Toyota has when they built these cars. Toyota could have done 2 bolt main, but they didn't. They could do cast cranks, but they didn't. I guess that's the philosiphy I try to go for when doing things like this.

 

[ChrisV]

. Personally, I also like to stive for the spirit of engineering that Toyota has when they built these cars. Toyota could have done 2 bolt main, but they didn't. They could do cast cranks, but they didn't. I guess that's the philosiphy I try to go for when doing things like this.

Toyota spent multi-millions on development. We can't. So there is a slight disconnect in philosphy.

 

[bango]

Yeah..Thinking Smart is another way of saving millions too,spending millions and thinking Smart is something else...lol ..I was talking to a few engine builders,came up with 2 types,I wanted orginally around 500-600Hp (at the Crank)from my Holden V8..First one wanted to spend heaps,we went past 15K like no tomorrowand heads had to be alluminium,even though I told him i had very good iron heads (ported.big Valves etc Flowed 630 Hp)...Then the second one was similar but wanted nothing to do with aluminium heads or block at all,did not like adapter plates for gearbox of any sort,thus limiting to factory fitted bell housing and boxes..recon with adapters he had bad experiences with Main bearings wearing out after a short time...conclusion to all this banta..I went and got a 1UZ..we all know what it can do..much less that 15 K installed,and 500-600 HP blown..lol

 

[turboandrew]

I stated philosophy, not budget. You can do your best to engineer a safe and well designed project and still keep it within a reasonable budget. Not using dowel pins is just irresponsible. But anyway, do what you want.

 

[Zuffen]

Bango has hit on a problem most people don't understand when swapping auto transmissions.

When the transmission comes up to full operating pressure it actually makes the torque converter slide forward on the shaft and over-loading the thrust bearings in the engine.

When installing a torque converter there should be about 3mm (1/8") clearance between it and the flexplate to allow the thrust bearings to run free when the trans is not at full pressure.

The reason a flexplate is called that is becasue it is designed to flex and allow the t/c to move on the splines.

A lot of engine builders won't guarantee thrust bearings with non standard autos or flex plates in use.

Dowel pins are so important that you can buy offset pins to re-centre transmissions on engines that have been linebored.
Swapping trasnmissions (any sort) is a complicated task that can go wrong very easilly.

 

[Lextreme II]

The plate is being AutoCad right now with dowels included. This will make some of you happy....