Verifying auto trans types and uses.

[MacroP]

Greetings all.
Just hoping to get some more knowledge of the various Toyo transmissions and what is their operation, for my project.

Currently, in my garage, I have a 92 1UZ from a Soarer a.k.a. SC400. The engine was removed from a wreck along with it's transmission, A341E / A30-41LE. It's been stipped down, rebuilt and is ready for starting.

I've also picked up an auto tranny that came froma 91 Hilux Surf that is marked as a A30-43LE(Aisin number?) so I guess this makes the unit a A343F in Toyota lingo. This unit has a mechanically operted low range setting, having the F desgnation, vs a hydraulically operated transfer has a H designation, ie A34xH.

My project involves putting the 1UZ and auto into a 1988 75 series Landcruiser ute, hence the need for the 4WD tranny. I pretty much have every thing ready to go together just waiting for an easy few days.

In a previous post, Lextreme member 'madmont' has successfully mounted a transfer box (A340h) to the original auto that came from the 1UZ. This required the transmission output shaft to be changed, which is turn requires the entire gearbox internals to be stripped out. Something I'm not confident about doing, just yet. I am, at first, planning to use the entire trans/transfer a go. Obviously, the bell housing's need changing over. If this doesn't work eventually then I'll have to fit the new Trans. box to the orignal Soarer transmission.

The difference between the two trannies, apart from the obvious inclusion of the transfer box, is that the Soarer box has a 6 pin solenoid connector, where as the Surf box has only a 3 pin connector.
4 solenoid vs 2 solenoid?
The actual gearbox cases are identical.
From what I've read, the Soarer has the standard 2 solenoid drive setup (S1,S1) aswell as a T/C Lockup solenoid (S3/SLU) and a Line pressure solenoid (S4/SLN) which regulates shift quality/attitude? Both the latter's are a PWM proportional setup.
My surf gearbox only has a 3 pin Solenoid connector, meaning to me, that it only utilises 2 drive solenoids and goes without the T/C Lockup and shift quality setup?

Apparently, some Toyo 4WD boxes have a hydraulically operated low gear in the transfer box and use the S4 Solenoid of the main trasmission to engage low gear. Later/newer 4WD boxes utilise the S3 solenoid for TC lockup too.

The transfer is also missing a second speed sensor output. The primary, gear driven, unit looks to be quite compatible but the box is missing the second, magentic type. No big deal though, really.

My plan is to connect the original Soarer loom to the older type 4WD trans. The Soarer enigne has an integrated ECU/ECT and, apparently doesn't like the gearbox to be not present. To what degree is what I'm asking? No primary solenoids,S1 and S2 present!
I understand the ECU/ECT monitors the conitinuity of the available solenoids?
At which point does it spit the dummy if they are not present? S1+S2=Good pehaps where as no S3 or S4=bad. ?
I was thinking, as to put a dummy load on the wiring loom to simulate the now mssing S3 and S4 soleloids. I wonder if this is enough. I'm curious as to whether the ECU/ECT monitors the input shaft vs output shaft speed relationship, to verify if the trans. is actually working correctlty or NOT.

 

[madmont]

The a341e has more clutches than the a340h from the 4runner. The a340h has 3 solenoids in the transmission they are all earthed in the transmission unlike the a341e where 2 are earthed and the lockup and line pressure solenoids need 2 wires to operate, the ecu supplying the earth for operation. The a341h has an additional solenoid in the transfer case for low range operation. The computer probably needs
the 2 speed sensor outputs on the a341e to operate properly.I would suggest attaching the case and internals from the a341e to the a340f transfer for best results. The speed sensors also differ in operation between the 2 transmissions and some engineering may be necessary .Hope this helps.

 

[MacroP]

Hope this helps.

Certainly has. I pulled out my meter and checked the pinouts of both transmissions. So I guess my Surf box must have the TC lockup but not the line pressure adjustment.
My transfer box is physically different to yours and doesn't have the hydrualically operated low range. I wonder why they put one type in Petrol models(VZN130,YN130) and another type in the diesel models yet the transmssions are much the same. My Totota parts EPC tells me the trans output shafts are different between the two similar trannies.
I need a transfer lever to operate low range. Actually I need the entire centre console for my project vehicle. It's amazing how I score the entire Surf box privately for $450 but a 4WD wrecker wants nearly $300 for the centre console plastics and a pair of levers.
Your method is looking to be the way to go. The Soarer box should handle a bit more abuse I guess from what you say about the clutch disc numbers.
Looks like I don'd need to change over the valve bodys afterall seeing I don't need a hydrualic line for the transfer case.
Tommorrow, I'm going to pull the transfer off the Surf box and also remove the output shaft housing from the Soarer box to reveal the output shafts.
Maybe there is a glimmer of hope that the output shafts are the same.

Thanks again.

Update: Got everything apart. Looks like I'll be doing an output shaft swap.

 

[MacroP]

More updates.

Find this site http://www.supras.nl/view.php?page=modsTransmission2JZMA7.htm
Ripping the transmission apart doesn't look all that hard. Might give it go myself.
Got a few quotes today from some auto mobs. $300-$400 in labour+ new seals?.

Been sussing out the Speed sensor issue, especially the SS#2 which seems to be the most important one for the engine to run properly. The transfer box adapter housing has provision for a reed switch type VSS(I think, was missing from my box, never seen one). An aluminium rotor with an impregnated magnet sits on the A343F output shaft(Which I need to swap out to the Soarer box). I have to some how modify my magnetic reluctor type 4 pole ring to fit this new output shaft. I think I'll (try to) whip something up on the lathe at work. Combine the two rotors together. The housing has a 12mm reed switch mounting hole which needs to be reamed out to 15mm for my reluctor type sensor. The gap seem to be correct at this point by I'll have to wait and see, nothing a few shims a can't fix though.

As for the MRE rotory type primary sensor, I might just leave it out for the time being and adapt a mechanical cable to the transfer output shaft. I guess the ECU will spit out an error code becuase of this.

 

[Cruz]

cool

Thats what I have at the moment same boxes aswell I was looking at your photos and have a question why cant you cut the rear output sharft on your soarer box to the rigth length then there is no need to disasemble or am I missing something just thought it would be easyer what do you think thanks

 

[MacroP]

Thats what I have at the moment same boxes aswell I was looking at your photos and have a question why cant you cut the rear output sharft on your soarer box to the rigth length then there is no need to disasemble or am I missing something just thought it would be easyer what do you think thanks

I certainly could have done that. I just thought I'd try to do it properly plus actually learn how the auto worked. I've never ripped one apart before.

Did I bit more more today. Got the shaft in, 100% compatible between the two. Only took 15 minutes to get it out this time. Putting the gearsets and clutch packs together then carfeully sliding them in can be a bit painfull.

Anyway, here's my progress thus far.

 

[MacroP]

Still more pics.

 

[madmont]

Good to see you have tackled the job of dismantling and reassembling your
transmission . On my hydraulic transfer case I had to fit the four pronged rotor instead of the single magnet rotor .It was quite easy just needed shortening and reboring to ft on the shaft. The sensor hole needed enlarging
to fit the sensor with a little packing to space it to the correct clearance.
Download the articles on a341e from levelten http://www.levelten.com/article.htm
they may help . I may have another link at home which may help if i find it I will post .Keep up the good work.

 

[MacroP]

Good to see you have tackled the job of dismantling and reassembling your
transmission . On my hydraulic transfer case I had to fit the four pronged rotor instead of the single magnet rotor .It was quite easy just needed shortening and reboring to ft on the shaft. The sensor hole needed enlarging
to fit the sensor with a little packing to space it to the correct clearance.
Download the articles on a341e from levelten http://www.levelten.com/article.htm
they may help . I may have another link at home which may help if i find it I will post .Keep up the good work.

Excellent article, cheers. Simple mods. Not much involved apart from new clutch plates and steels.
Now that I've seen this I might pickup myself another Soarer box(as nobody wants these and they're dirt cheap) and have a play myself.

As for the speed sensor's 4 prong rotor, I'm think of removing the actual rotor from the geared collar(it's only spot wleded on) and making a new keyed collar and fitting the rotor to this. Gives me something to do whilst I'm on night shift
I had noticed the sensor hole needs to be increasd by about 3 mm or so to.
Cheers.

 

[madmont]

try downloading this file also
www.transtec.com/rebuilder_news/1st_q00r-n.pdf
I also had to drill and tap additional hole directly under output shaft for attachment screw. The boss on which the 4 prong part is mounted is easy to machine much easier than making another.

 

[MacroP]

try downloading this file also
www.transtec.com/rebuilder_news/1st_q00r-n.pdf
I also had to drill and tap additional hole directly under output shaft for attachment screw. The boss on which the 4 prong part is mounted is easy to machine much easier than making another.

Yep, drilled and tapped the new hole tonight at work, came up a treat. Had a good look at the rotor. It looks, like you said, to be a simple machining job. I'm tackling that tonight.
Main Transmission is all back togethor, waitng for the transfer to be bolted on once a get the SS sorted. Hopefully I haven't stuffed anything up.

 

[madmont]

Manual for a340e
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/at/AT_001.html

 

[slosh]

One problem with your conversion MacroP- the Surf t case has centred rear output but your 75 series has offset rear output.... are you going to run an angled rear propshaft?

Josh.

 

[Zuffen]

An angled rear driveshaft isn't a problem.

If you think about it it's only like having the rear axle rotatd around the vehicles centreline. It won't be a problem.

I looked at a Toyota 4x4 trans for my Range Rover but was stopped by the centre drive as the self levelling leg is in the way. You don''t have that problem/sophistication with a Cruiser.

 

[slosh]

An angled rear driveshaft isn't a problem.

If you think about it it's only like having the rear axle rotatd around the vehicles centreline. It won't be a problem.

I looked at a Toyota 4x4 trans for my Range Rover but was stopped by the centre drive as the self levelling leg is in the way. You don''t have that problem/sophistication with a Cruiser.

I have 80 series Cruiser diffs under my Hilux, which has offset centre, while my t case is centred.
A lot of people say that in principle it should work- the driveshaft modding people weren't so confident.
I put double cardan joint on front of shaft. It works OK for moment almost no vibes (wouldn't work w/o d/c joint), but I'm going to trouble of changing the T case to align the shaft.
Certainly wouldn't recommend anyone deliberately mis align their driveline if it can be avoided.

Josh.

 

[Zuffen]

Slosh,

A driveline must be "misaligned" to work properly.

You can't run joints where the "line of run" is a straight line thru the gearbox output shaft, driveshaft & pinion shaft. In other words either the diff or trans must be higher than the other. They can be the same level but then you would need to have them misaligned along the centreline of the vehicle.

If you have a vibration it most likely comes from the DC as they are known to cause vibrations as your shaft is "double hinged" so wants to move out of alignment (rotate in a circle that gets bigger the faster it rotates!) at the back of the DC.

DC's are usually only used on rigs that have been raised for rockcrawling were speeds are low and a vibration won't be felt nor matter.

 

[Engineer]

Gidday, this is my first post on this site, spent heaps of time reading up on all your posts :hail:

Just curious why no-one uses the A343f and bolts thats upto the lexus bellhousing, change the input shaft an pump over? its already bolted the the transfer case..??

Im putting a 1uzfe into my 92 surf very shortly. Its currently the 2.4td with the A343f.

Cheers Ryan.

 

[madmont]

You will find that the internals and sensors are different. But on the other hand you could be creative and use the Surf transmission ecu and the 1uz ecu and get them to work in harmony .

 

[Engineer]

yea thats what i was gunna try do. cant be that hard surely...:Eyecrazy:
gotta love having auto sparkie mates.

Ryan.

 

[wortho]

if you use the chop method like cruz suggested (coz most of us are lazy) is it just a straight bolt together to the transfer case then? (besides the hole underneath and the sensor hole widening)?