UZZ31 Soarer won't crank. Dash lights turn off when cranking. Help please... :(

[EIL_V8]

Hello again.

I had a look at wiring and all seems good outside of intake valley.

Question:

When jumping starter relay terminals in fuse box, does this bypass all other systems such as neutral start switch and ignition?
For example, the USA cars have immobilizers.
If immobilizer is active for whatever reason, will jumping the relay terminal in fuse box for starter motor cause the starter to try start car, or can something stop the jump from working?

When I try jump the starter terminal in fuse box, there is no noise at starter motor. Relays click (2 or 3 times I think) when key is turned to "on", but nothing happens when trying to crank and dash shorts out til key is released.

Auto elec claims open wire underneath manifold, or wire to starter is off, or starter is faulty... But he only checked the starter relay terminal thing in fuse box, no ignition or shift test, etc.

Thanks guys!

 

[blackdemon_tt]

will not. Bypass Neutral Safety Switch, so it has to be in Neutral or Park. Yes it will start if you insert your key in the ignition, if it's the proper key than immobilizer shouldn't prevent it from turning on.... The reason I walked you through the battery and grounding cable first, it's because it is easier and cheaper and most times can solve your issues. Once you're sure those are not the issue you can safely asume its your starter.. if its shorted out then you're dead in the water needing a new starter regardless...

When the jump didn't work, did you get the same symptom as losing all power at the dash??

I'm not trying to lead you down the path of throwing replacement parts that don't need to be replaced.. testing these things first can save you alot of money and headaches.... I did these steps on my truck, because like you I was in denial, lol... I replaced my ground wire and when that didn't work I took it back. Warranted my Optima battery and that didn't work, Jumped it via the fuse box and I could hear a click but no start... the starter was dead, replaced it and I had my truck back, but took me a week to troubleshoot and caving in to replacing it...

 

[EIL_V8]

Hello,

When we tried to jump car with starterpack, the situation was same - dash turns off.

It's usually a bad battery cable or what not, but as far as I can tell all is fine outside the intake...

I've ordered a new intake gasket set which will be here by the 5th of Jan, and organized a mechanic to come visit.

Will update thread accordingly. Don't expect much news for around two weeks.

Thanks for ya help!

- Also forgot to check the Earth thing with another cable to engine, will do that tonight!

 

[EIL_V8]

Hi again!

Intake gasket arrived, job can now be completed.

Before I take the manifold off, just to be extra clear:

The starter relay in fuse box when jumped with a wire does not make the starter move.

When jumped, is this relay terminal bypassing everything and supplying 12v to starter, or does the terminal still rely on other things working such as ignition circuit, and immobilizer, and neutral safety switch?

For example, is jumping the starter terminal 'useless'?

From what I gather, I need to feed 12v directly to starter to test it, and the relay terminal would rely on ignition>ecu>safety switch>etc> before reaching starter, right?

DO NOT CALL LUBE MOBILE TO FIX YOUR SOARER! ...

 

[blackdemon_tt]

Yes, only thing between the starter and ignition is the relay. Will not bypasss Neutral Safety switch, if you're unsure put it in Neutral and try it.

 

[EIL_V8]

Thanks TT.

Car won't crank and dash shorts out in park or neutral. Same symptoms.
Looks like manifold's coming off 100% then.

Incredibly infuriated.

If a wire inside manifold is not obviously loose and starter tests good with direct 12v from battery, where would we check next?

Just seeing all possibilities so I don't have to take this thing off again...

 

[blackdemon_tt]

Before opening anything up, you have to check your earths, your clamps and your batteries, there is nothing more infuriating than doing all the heavy lifting and it being a loose bolt somewhere. Check the other post Totally Dead for more reference first before you jump off the cliff on this..

 

[EIL_V8]

Checked earth behind engine, and Earth beside fuse box from negative battery post and both are as good as ever it seems by eye... The negative Earth cable is held on by a ring clamp or something which seems part of the body... No idea how to remove this or put a new cable on - it does not seem straight forward.

I sandpapered the battery leads and that's all tidy too...

Auto elec and bush mechanic both said it's likely a faulty starter, as it appears the solenoid and relay both click once when the key is turned to crank (and dash shorts out til key is released again) which means power appears to be getting across the wires, but the starter itself is not turning on.

I also could have sworn when I was attempting to crank the car whilst relay was out, that I saw sparks come out of the terminal holes in fuse box??? I was clicking key on and off and on and off testing the relays and I saw sparks I think... Could not replicate again. Was I daydreaming??

All appears good by eye, all fuses too (have not seen underneath fuse box).

So, jumping starter relay and nothing happens, starter is dead.
Turning key to crank shorts out the dash, and the starter relay and starter solenoid appear to click once (most times).
Car did not have this issue before Lube Mobile arrived so must be timing belt/water pump/starter motor related...

I understand I appear to be going in circles right now, I'm just trying to cover all ends...

I still only know of 2 Earth points on the v8 soarer, but have read there are many...

How is starter Earthed? Is that by wire, or direct touch to valley?

Will try a battery jumper cable from neg battery to engine block and then chassis to see if anything happens...

--------

When key is first turned to ON (not ignition) I hear relays click 2-3 times which I think is normal. Car won't crank, dash shorts out, starter relay in fuse box clicks once when trying to crank but nothing happens and dash shorts out.

 

[blackdemon_tt]

Self check redundancies lead you to the initial conclusion that the starter is faulty... It is a difficult process and it seems like you're chasing your tail at times, but its better to invest the time in something you have troubleshooted the cheapest parts first than something that is more expensive and to find out later it was something cheap, like a fuse, relay or earth... As far as I've searched the 1UZ only has 2 earths, the starter should have an earth on a bracket. Once you pull it out, you will see it, fastened by a nut, the power will be a slide in click bracket. When you jump on this, take pictures and bag and mark everything so you wont loose anything.

 

[361UZ]

Usually, when I have a flat (ish) battery OR there is a bad connection between the battery and the car (either positive or ground), everything is ok until the key is turned to start. The large current drawn by the starter "stresses" the connections and any poor ones give way, often with a spark. Since the connection has given way, no current flows, not even to the dash etc.
Sometimes, when the battery is low in charge, when you turn the key, that starter solenoid will energise (click), but when the solenoid connects the battery to the starter, the heavy current drawn by the starter will cause the battery voltage to drop to a point that the solenoid isn't getting enough voltage, so it will de-energise. At that stage the starter is disconnected fom the battery, so the battery voltage will rise. Then the solenoid will re-energise. This is why you sometimes hear a chattering as the solenoid energises and de-energises.
Jumping the start relay eliminates almost every connection except the wiring from battery to the relay, from the relay to the starter, and the two heavy current wires, being the big battery cable (from battery to starter) and ground, from the starter to the car's body, then to the negative battery terminal.
Your idea of grounding the engine block direct to the battery negative is a good idea.
If the starter is short circuited, then you would expect most of the symptoms you are seeing. The dead short to ground (in or around the starter) will draw all the current the battery can muster, so everything else goes dark. But you's expect the same effect with a bad connection at the battery.
On my Crown, there is a terminal block attached to the positive battery terminal. I dont know what your car has. It has the big battery to starter wire bolted to the battery terminal by a wing bolt, that also attaches the other battery positive wires, some fusable links etc. I would make sure that battery terminal is bolted directly to the big starter cable first, then the other connections can be attached. If your's is the same, as you dismantle it, it will make sense. Make sure all the terminal rings are clean.

 

[EIL_V8]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

361, your explanation is exactly what I was after. Jumping relay bypasses 'most things'.

Does this also bypass a faulty ignition (key switch)?

For example, ignition switch works fine seemingly, and lights up dash, but when trying to crank the dash shorts out. Is there a chance this could be a faulty ignition instead of a starter issue?

(Both jobs are $500 jobs unless I do it myself, so that is really the last worry/question).

The intake gasket set arrived the other day but was bent so am waiting on a replacement.
Platinum brand intake manifold gasket set "IMS222" listed for SC400 and LS400 but not jdm v8 soarer. $45. Looks same. Supercheap are sending it via special order, so that will take 2-3 weeks.

So, won't be doing much til then. Will report back once I try the jumper cable to the engine block (new earth) thing.

 

[EIL_V8]

Nothing I've done (as listed above) has gotten power to the starter to crank the car. Mechanic is arriving on Monday to check the issue. Hopefully it'l be sorted!

Also, might be selling a Soarer as once it is fixed, I refuse to work on it again. PM if interested, lol.

Located in Australia.

 

[EIL_V8]

I also had a brainfart moment...

When you crank a car, all power is sent to the starter and the lights and stuff on the dash turn off to allow it to crank for that split second.

So, the lights and everything are fine on my car, it's just that nothing happens when I turn the key to crank it.

Lights are not shorting out, it is normal operation. The starter just isn't cranking.

 

[EIL_V8]

Hi guys, thanks for all the help, sorry for the delay, some real life issues got in the way and so on.

Turns out Lube Mobile (the arsehole) didn't put the wire on correctly to the starter, and it melted during the test drive. Probably on purpose as he was called back multiple times due to his own fault.

One new wire and $480 labor later, car works again!

Now the issue is a non working fuel pump, I'll make a new post on that.

Again, thanks all!

 

[blackdemon_tt]

Glad you got it figured out.

 

[EIL_V8]

- Took long enough!