UCF11 Celsior- need help

[Chunners32]

Hi guys,

I am newbie and just brought a UCF11 Celsior that needs a few things fixed. I've done several searches to try and find the answers to my questions but any additional info/advice would be much appriciated.

Here is what i would like help with:

1. What year was my car built? (to help with the other Q's)

2. I need to replace my AC compressor. What are the differences between the 90-93 models? Would a UCF10 compressor be a direct fit?

I've removed the label from my current compressor but some of the numbers are faded/removed. The numbers i can make out are:

DENSO
10PA 447200-???
R134a ?? OIL

I searched on a DENSO website i found the following model numbers:
1990-92 # 471-1219
1993-94 # 471-1162

These do not seem to match what i've got. Any ideas where i can source a cheap replacement compressor?

3. The speedo doesn't work. I believe its the sensor on the back of the gearbox (SP2) as the O/D OFF light flashes. The gearbox still changes gears normally. Is there a difference in the sensors between the year models? No local wreckers in townsville have them so i want to make sure i order the right part from a brisbane wrecker.

4. The tacho doesn't work properly. It sits dead (as low as the needle will go) while driving until you give it some. When the engine is high in the revs the needle only indicates around the 1,000-1,500 rpm mark. Is it most likely that the needle has slipped off the shaft and needs to be re-calibrated? or is it more of a sensor issue? What are the other possible causes?

Any help would be great.

Cheers,

Tristan

 

[spf_lexus]

Looks like you have some work on your plate now! hehe, I replaced virtually every part on my 1991, and the best advice I can give is to find a dismantler with your year and buy everythingat once, cheapest route. As for your year, 1990-1994 are basically all the same aside from small minor chages in braking and interior. I would assume you are in this bracket because the major changes transferred over to the UCF20, not the number listed on your VIN.

A/C-

Extremely expensive to have anyone else do, I paid $1000 for a used pump and the labor to install. Also, since you have the older model, the refrigerent needs to be converted to the newer r154 (I think thats right) so with the labor for the parts and refrig change it isnt cheap. As for the compressor, I paid $100 for a used one, $750 new from dealer.

Speedo/Tach-

Check the plugs on the back of your tranny as well as all your fuses 1st, or have someone check the obvious connections. if gauge cluster is looking like culprit, I would just buy a used cluster from another celsior/LS400. Why? Because I hate electrical! and a used cluster is almost 100% guaranteed to work, thesse dont go bad too often.

Hope this helps,

Sean

 

[Chunners32]

Thanks for the reply mate,

I worked out that it was built in May 1990 from this table:

http://jnc.farpost.com/data/framno/ucf11.html

I can now ring around and see what parts i can find.

 

[Chunners32]

Jacked the car up to look at the speedo sensor. Which ones its it, A or B?

A is located on the passenger side.

B located on the drivers side.

Or is it something else?

 

[Peewee]

B drives the speedo itself, and then a signal goes from the speedo to the ecu (SP1 or SPD)

A goes directly to the ecu (SP2)

 

[Chunners32]

B drives the speedo itself, and then a signal goes from the speedo to the ecu (SP1 or SPD)

A goes directly to the ecu (SP2)

Thanks,

The speedo doesn't move at all and the 'O/D OFF' light flashes, does that mean i need to replace 'A'? or could it still be 'B'?

I might unplug 'A' tomorrow and take it for a drive to see if it still changes gears. If so am i safe to assume thats the one thats broken, if not i'll do the same for 'B'.

 

[Peewee]

'A' has nothing to do with the speedo, so replacing that won't help.

Bridge TE1 and E1 and find out what code the OD light is trying to say.
It may be nothing to do with the 'A' sensor.

 

[Chunners32]

I unplugged sensor 'B' and the gearbox still chaged gears fine. I'm assuning this is the sensor that needs replacing but I've still got to check the fault codes. Do these vary between the models or am i safe to just ask the wrecker for one that looks like mine?

I was able to get the tacho working by pulling the dash apart and pushing the needle back onto the shaft. Not sure how accurate it is but it better than before.

My car would have originally came out with an AC compressor that used R12 gas but my current one uses R134a. At some stage a newer compressor was installed for the new gas. I rang a few local shops and a UCF20 (R134a) compressor retails for ~$1000 or the old UCF10 (R12) for ~$1500. Does anywhere in australia sell replacements cheaper?

Thanks

 

[Peewee]

The original compressor will work fine with R134A. Thats what 99% of converted cars do. The only thing that changes are the fitting where they gas it from. Whats wrong with your compressor?


That sensor will be common for a fair few Toyota's. You just have to make sure that the plug and dimensions are the same. The cog will swap from the old sensor into a new one.

I know Soarer's use the same sensor

 

[Chunners32]

The original compressor will work fine with R134A. Thats what 99% of converted cars do. The only thing that changes are the fitting where they gas it from. Whats wrong with your compressor?


That sensor will be common for a fair few Toyota's. You just have to make sure that the plug and dimensions are the same. The cog will swap from the old sensor into a new one.

I know Soarer's use the same sensor

Thanks mate,

Not sure whats wrong with the compressor, just took it to an aircon place to see why its not cold and was told the compressor needs replacing.

 

[DenZel]

i got one up for grabs, but cant pm you or access your email

let me know if you are interested, (came off a ucf celsior)

pm me, or email me - [email protected]

 

[Chunners32]

'A' has nothing to do with the speedo, so replacing that won't help.

Bridge TE1 and E1 and find out what code the OD light is trying to say.
It may be nothing to do with the 'A' sensor.

I got a fault code of 42 - No. 1 speed sensor signal malfunction when i ran the diagnostic test. I replaced sensor 'B' (the one with the cog) and reset the fault codes by removing the 20 amp EFI fuse in the engine bay and i also disconnected the battery.

The speedo still does not work and still gives a fault code of 42. Did i replace the right sensor? What else could it be?

 

[Peewee]

You'll continue getting code 42 until you get the speedo working again.

So you either have a problem with the sensor, the gears, or the dash unit itself.

You need to make sure that the metal gear inside the gearbox is still ok.
You need to make sure the plastic cog gear is ok
You need to make sure the sensor itself is ok (try it on another car)
You need to make sure the sensor is getting the correct voltage (I can't remember if its 5V or 12V)
And you need to make sure the dash cluster itself is still working.

 

[Chunners32]

Thanks for the advise guys.

I'm still trying to find someone in Townsville with another celsior/ls400 so i can swap some parts and test them.

I took the car to an aircon shop today and they reakcon the compressor is dead and the evaporator is clogged. I've already sorced another compressor now i just got to see if i can get to the evaporator without removing the whole dash. I had a quick look by removing the glovebox and i looks like it might be possile but definately a pain in the arse.

 

[sideshow]

2 wires on speed sensor b

middle one is earth
outer ones wil be 12v and the signal wire
12v one wil either be reb/blue or yellow

signal can be afew colours usually blue/yellow on a aristo so not sure on a celsior
id have to check

but find the 12v wire see if it has 12v

now find the signal wire prob into it while it is connected
turn ignition on and jack car up and spin the wheels so tailshaft spins

voltage should fluctuate from say around 1 or 2 volts up to 5 or 7 volts

if it does then problem is either dash or wiring from sensor to dash
if it is bad wiring good luck with it

these cars are not meant to be pulled apart hehehee
i once stripped a soarer dash down took somethign like 2 days doing it carefully

another thing i do is with my signal generator is send a pulse down the signal wire so im replicating the speedo sensor
then i can see if the speedo works but i garantee 99.99% of workshops out there wont do this

 

[1uzvl]

i hope youve got a large cheque book,a/c on these things is pricey for new parts.I would be asking a few more questions as to what "dead" means.Is it leaking or has it failed internally?If its ONLY leaking you may be in luck but if its failed you will be up for a new condensor($700 odd dollars from memory) and possible evap/TX and a full flush depending on the damage.

Any shavings from the failed compressor if not removed will end up back at the new one killing it.

 

[Chunners32]

2 wires on speed sensor b

middle one is earth
outer ones wil be 12v and the signal wire
12v one wil either be reb/blue or yellow

signal can be afew colours usually blue/yellow on a aristo so not sure on a celsior
id have to check

but find the 12v wire see if it has 12v

I jacked the car up today to try and diagnose the speedo issue. Here is what i found:

Connector for Sensor B has 3 wires: yellow, red/blue and white (in that order left to right when looking at the plug)

With the ignition on i got the following voltages:
White= 0V
red/blue= 12V
Yellow= 10V

Thus, when i connected the white and red/blue wires i got 12V and when i connected the red/blue and yellow wires i got 2V.

Does that mean the white=earth, red/blue=12V and yellow=signal? The colours match but i found the center wire to be 12V not an earth.

now find the signal wire prob into it while it is connected
turn ignition on and jack car up and spin the wheels so tailshaft spins

voltage should fluctuate from say around 1 or 2 volts up to 5 or 7 volts

I re-connected the plug and tried to measure the voltage of the yellow wire whilst spining the wheels/tailshaft. I was only able to slowly turn the wheels with my foot as i layed under the car holding the probes. The voltage did not fluctuate, but i'm unsure if i turnt the wheels quick enough to make it work.

another thing i do is with my signal generator is send a pulse down the signal wire so im replicating the speedo sensor
then i can see if the speedo works but i garantee 99.99% of workshops out there wont do this

I have already replaced sensor B with one from a wreaker in 'working condition'. Is there a way to test these sensors without installing them into the gearbox as i now have 2?

Are signal generators a common tool i.e will most auto electricians have one?

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[sideshow]

even if u turn wheel slowly u should be able to get 0 volts then flick up to 5 or 7 volts then abck to 0 volts

u can remove sensor from gearbox then spin it by hand

anyway i looked at my diags

the yellow is the signal like u said it should fluctuate as u spin it

the white is ground or 0 volts and it is earthed at the back of the dash inside the cluster

99% of auto elects wont have signal geenerators as they know jack **** bout anything except for fixing door locks on fords or holdens hehehehehe

if u have 12v and an earth and u get no fluctuating voltage on the signal then you have a faulty sensor most probably

you can bench test these sensors its fiddly but u just have to replicate the 3 wires on the speedo sensor plug

 

[Chunners32]

even if u turn wheel slowly u should be able to get 0 volts then flick up to 5 or 7 volts then abck to 0 volts

u can remove sensor from gearbox then spin it by hand

anyway i looked at my diags

the yellow is the signal like u said it should fluctuate as u spin it

the white is ground or 0 volts and it is earthed at the back of the dash inside the cluster

99% of auto elects wont have signal geenerators as they know jack **** bout anything except for fixing door locks on fords or holdens hehehehehe

if u have 12v and an earth and u get no fluctuating voltage on the signal then you have a faulty sensor most probably

you can bench test these sensors its fiddly but u just have to replicate the 3 wires on the speedo sensor plug

Thanks sideshow, i will remove the sensor and check to see if the output signal fluctuates.

 

[litldv8]

a/c parts

hi all
sounds like the compressor has seized internally? if it has it will have put metal through the evaporator and the condensor - best to do both. the evap is easy with just pulling the glovebox out. i will have a look and try to find the guy i bought the bits from. i think i payed ~ 550 for the comp, ~ 250 condensor, ~250 evap all new.