Toyota Camery got car of the year in 2007

[Toysrme]

Toyota Australia does have a 2gr-fze demosntration/display model, but it does not have a supercharged v6 in production.



I wouldn't own one if they did. Toyota has the absolute must un-reliable NA to Supercharged reliability of all time. By a very wide margin. I mean absolutely pitiful failure rates on every former supercharged car v6 they've ever made. Ungodly bad...

It's the classic, I'm-trying-to-make-a-point-but-the-scarey-part-is-I'm-not-exaggerating, kind of bad.






















Why shouldn't the Camry win every car of the year in existance award?


Not only did the new 6th generation Camry set a USA blazing sales year of 448,445 A 4.2% gain over 2005 sales, yet having only been on sale for 9 months (plus change) instead of 12!?


Not only that, but With the Camry, comes the Camry platforms.
ES 350 75,987 sales on the same 9 months worth of sales, up 12.8% from the previous year.
Another 88,938 Avalon sales.



Now let's add in the fact that Toyota rides the Camry platform like no other. Guess what else is Camry platform? Yup. The Sienna van & the Highlander / RX.
+163,269 Sienna sales
+129,794 Highlander sales
+108,348 RX350/400h sales










Toyota sold 1,014,781 Camry's just in the USA in 2006.







And with the new Camry plaform this year came the redesigned 2005 Avalon platform (which outsold the outgoing design by some 300% in 2005).
And we have the 2008 redesign of the Highlander/RX, and the Sienna van.


































If nothing else, the Camry should win every "most signifigant" car award in America, simply because it has been the most signifigant platform on sale in America for about 10 years, with strong sales going back 15 years.

It is, without any doubt, the most signifigant thing on sale in America.

 

[Toysrme]

And the v6 transaxle is very strong.
The 4 speed was originally designed in 1985 by Asian-Warner, in production in 1987 holding 174ft-lbs of torque went relatively unchaged mechanically through 2001. It held 260ft-lbs at that time.
They basically hold 320bhp with long term reliability on good fluid, and an auxillary cooler.
Keep in mind... A relatively unchanged design from 1985 routinely holds 52% more power than any aotomatic transaxle general motors made, even in a labrotory, until 1991.
The 5 & 6 speeds do suffer shift logic problems, but it's shift logic. Get over it. Every drive-by-wire transmission on sale... Ever... Suffers to some degree with throttle responce & shift logic.

The computer logic at this point in time simply does not do a 100% consistant job at interpriting a driver's wants. That's an industry wide problem. Not a problem on a single FWD platform.






The differance in the Camry & The ES 350 is nothing more than the ES 350 being given 91ron VS the Camry's 87ron. With afew hundred bucks in making a new y-pipe, it'd be running stock 2gr-fse numbers.




Oh.... And on the Camry platform, we like to "start" at a 125 wet shot. What ya running jibberoo? ! LoL!
If you run a manual. You're in for a race on the juice. The engines can run well in excess of 450hp, and the transmission is mechanically the same that runs on the 3s-gte. Clutch + pressureplate + luck = your own copy of what Rod Millen's 800bhp Pike's Peak Celica used.




I'd put money on the Camry if you ran the Camry with equivilent mods on n2o. The Camry has a sick weight advantage, has a sick rotational mass advantage being... A v6, and a transaxle... And it has a weight bias advantage that at the power levels yall would expect to race at. You wouldn't overcome.


There simply isn't enough accelleration to knock the Camry's sick 61%F weight advantage to close to a 50% split, while you've bearly made inroads on getting your your 53%F bias rearwards to help keep your tires down.


I know yall don't like it because your all so old, but given the exact same starting technology, and staying away from ungodly amounts of power for a road car... FWD > RWD in raw acelleration.


(Where McPhearson strut FWD does grossly fail is controlling wheel hop. Guess what... $100-200 will make a 4-link suspension, which will keep the struts from rolling backwards - or forwards if you're a gay couter rotating honda - which will keep all your wieght on the ground & eliminate all your wheel hop! Hey! Just like putting a 4link on a rwd setup. Gee imagine that. <G>)


Now that we've all learned something.

MindQuickenyeah well my family owns nine of these "Camerys". they are very boring and feel like a boat to drive, but the older ones (pre-1990) were actually pretty nice. they sat low on the ground and were pretty light 2700 pounds curb weight. The 2.5L iron V6 really roared and was fun to drive, with plenty of feedback from the steering, and you really felt the surface of the road. It had a low compression ratio and strong forged internals, ran rich stock, and plenty of extra space in the engine bay. Perfect for snails!

No it didn't... It was a complete piece of crap. It did not have forged internals. It did not have steel anything. The pistons are of 3s quality. I.E. complete ****.
The rods are almost identical to 3s rods.
The crankshaft is iron, NOT TOOL STEEL like Toyota's good cranks.
The bearings are thin & early in production had oiling problems.
The headgaskets are crap - like anything before Multi-Layer-Steel headgaskets.
The power output is anemic compaired to every other Toyota v6 but the 2.0L 1vz-fe, even on 2700lbs curb weights. (Which is why you ditch a 2vz-fe for the later 3vz-fe replacement.)
And the got junk for economy. They average 20mpg. 156hp/2700lbs & they get 20mpg. 3vz-fe Camry's average a low 23-25mpg. Later v6's improved a ton.



Saddest thing about that right there? Is that the 3vz-fe is a 200hp / 204ft-lb engine by adding 5*btdc on the distributor, and leaning the AFM slightly.
It was de-tuned so it wouldn't compete with the 7m-ge, and 2jz-ge, which it did. And was much faster at just 185hp/195ft-lbs on the Camry. LoL!

1992 Camry v6 M/T = 15.2s
1992 Camry v6 A/T = 6.6s 16.0s
1988 Toyota Supra M/T = 7.9s 16.0s
1994 Toyota Supra M/T = 6.9s 15.2s
1992 Lexus ES 300 A/T = 8.6s 16.6s
1993 Lexus GS 300 A/T = 9.2s 16.8s

Drop another 3-4 tenths for the Camry's on 10minutes worth of free engine tweaks.





But, to the 2vz-fe's credit. I will always maintain that it sharest, "Easyest Toyota v6 to turbocharge" honors with the SOHC 3vz-e out of the truck platform. Even tho it's never been done on the 2vz-fe. Simply because all that has to happen is minor component relocation, and hole-saw/replace the main manifold to make a turbo-manifold since it's a stock crappy crossover pipe.

BUT IT CAN NOT handle substantual amounts of power.





The 3rd generation Camry (92) compaired to the 2nd (87-91) was improved in every way. When new, the suspension was much stiffer, as was the chassie. The car handled much better.
The change is that from 92+ Toyota/Lexus changed the entire steering rack & the philosophy behind it. In the Camry it's ment to simulate a Caddy/Lincoln. In the ES, it's meant to be that much mroe quicker & softer.
Which is why they're very disconnected feeling. Like an LS400, just only taken about 95% as far.
Considering that timeframe of Camry powersteering rack shares some parts & overall design of the LS400. LoL!


We also have the 1uz-fe fuel system, and the 1uz-fe ECU, simply upgraded to the Nth degree compaired to the same year 1uz-fe. (v6 got design updates about 3x more often as the v8's got.)

 

[Treynon]

I bet my prius can beat your camery... ok maybe not.

 

[jibbby]

My god man!!!!!! Toys very impressive with your Toyota information..

I always thought FWD was prone to failure...Via the Ford FWD taurus's, Mercury's, etc...Apparently Toyota is nothing like the older FWD Fords and Merc's....Still I can't stand FWD cars...Everything is bunched up front and squeezed into the front engine bay area...Makes it difficult to work on if you ever do experience transmission failure...Tie rods, steering assembly, suspension and everything gets in the way when trying to work on FWD cars in general...

As far as high volume sales making the Toyota Camry car of the year, that does not necessarly make it a great car, just great marketing by Toyota over the years....

However, being that it is a platform for others, nice HP holding capacity, etc..Toyota must have done something right in these Camry's...I am now a believer in the FWD Camry but still it would not be my choice of car in that price range....

Again, a nice and comprehensive write up courtesy of Toysreme....

 

[Toysrme]

Well I deal with the v6's in particular so it's nothing special. Ask me how much power your A/T will handle & I'm stumped until I look it up.

The higher torque Toyota transaxle's (4a-gze, 3s-gte, and all the v6's) are completely different Asian-Warner unit's than any of the i4's use. Toyota's never had mechnanical issues on them. They've always been more than up to the long term torque ouput they see. Now, like the newer drive-by-wire transmissions with electronic throttle body's. The shift logic sorta sucks compaired to older units, but... You work with what you get, no different than anything else new!







Really maintenance isn't bad. At work you just drop the transmission like normal. Doesn't take any longer than dropping anything else. At home, you pluck the enigne & transmission out the top as one unit. Abit annoying, but if you have the ability to pull one yourself, only adds about an hour's work.

And everything is cramped, not just FWD LoL! There's more room in my ES 300's bay than there is the '99 F150 4.6L sitting in the driveway. Alot more room.


The only thing that is ever a chore with a transaxle V bank engine is changing the rear bank plugs. Which can be done with Toyota's SST, a flexible shaft extension set, or simply removing the upper intake manifold. (V6's have always had a lower manifold with the injectors, and an upper manifold with the top 1/2 of the runners, pleumn chamber, and throttlebody).
If you own a cordless impact driver like me. You can dissasemble the intake manifold & have it laying in the driveway in about two min once you learn the grossly abbreviated steps to doing it.


Which to us isn't a big deal simply because of the carbon from the EGR flow. It's easyest to clean out of the ports by rmeoving the manifold. So it becomes routine maintenance to remove it anways. Always afew horsepower lost from that mess. Yuck.









See? *plenty* of room LoL!

Seems to fit a T4 OK after you relocate the battery & swap to the RHD cruise control unit.

 

[jibbby]

Very nice T4 setup you got their Toys....

I hear you, but still to me a transmission that is directly mounted under a sideway positioned 6 banger just looks like a hassle to work on to me...Getting to the back side of the engine looks like effort...

I don't own one so I cannot comment too much on the maintenance aspect of it....However, driving a front wheel car does has a different feel to it then driving a RWD car....Something to be said about hitting the gas and fishtailing out of a turn, also something to be said about the front end of your car lifting at launch and feeling those rears break loose and or grip as apposed to front wheel spin and excessive steering feel..

To me RWD or AWD for performance...Putt around town and I may consider a FRW ES300 Lexus but still I dought it......

 

[Toysrme]

It's fine.
FWD Came along time in 20 years people have been seriously playing with it. At this point the technology level has it pretty even unless it's silly circomstances.
And hey! Always more FWD rally cars than RWD.


Na! RWD is more fun, Given the same amount of Tech FWD is even, maybe alittle faster from less weight.

If you want sideways you just have to learn to upset the balance of the car. Or do like everyone else & put on a massive rear sway bar. Doesn't take anything more on this car than drive fast & flick the wheel quickly. As soon as the weight transfers you feel the back end sliding. Only fun thing is the recovery on FWD / AWD. Especially FWD. You use so much coutnersteer & so much throttle, you can pull yourself out of rediculous angles of attack if you'ev got the power & you were fast enough with it & the counter-steer.





Maintenance isn't bad. Nothing to maintain. Differential drains & fills the same way. As do the transmissions. The engines it's like anything longitudnial at this point. You spend 10 minutes removing plastic engine covers LoL! Actually dropping a transmission isn't routine.



In the event you MUST get down beside the engine. All you do is remove that wheel & there's always a large access hach cut in. Normally covered by a plastic cover.




Once you get the upper manifold off, it's fine.







No pic of the access hatch, but you know. It's about a 2 foot wide hole for the most part, not much to tell.





Look at it this way. When we break a passanger CV axle, or ahve to replace the rear engine mount. It's a bitch becuase the axle runs through a large bushing in the middle of the mount.
On the other hand, it takes about 5 minutes to change our starter. Change a starter on a 1uz-fe. LoL!

They've all got they're little nasty points. :\





tnx on the turbo's, all I could find short-hand.
#1 is an IHI RHC6 (Borg-Warner GM-6 from a GM Diesel)
#2 is a CT26a off a Supra
#3 is a GT40R/88

 

[jibbby]

Pro's and Con's to each car as you state....I guess FWD has come a long way over the years since I tinkered with them..

Maybe FWD isn't so bad after all...I personally have never driven a high powered FWD car... I do drive an 97 ES300 Lexus every now and then...It feels like a true FWD car to me, steering has the FWD feel under power and turning, peppy and light in weight...I look under the hood and it just looks like a hassle to work on.. I have not ventured to work on it yet...Sure it's just like the Camry's...

To me, I still like my older RWD SC400 feel much better.

Good info. Toys....

 

[RedPhoenix]

I really liked my camry.. althought it was a gen3, still got car of the year.

 

[BARRY]

ALL toyota's drive a like, that is the difference between toyota and everybody else.

no wonder why my household only owns toyota's. RWD, FWD, ALL wheel drive, in day to day driving they feel exactly the same if its a toyota. thats what i love about toyota's.

now...i do feel the 2007 Camry deserves the car of the year award because it simply does. You will not appreciate one until you own one. I have one in my household, and one 2007 Accord. I DREDDDD driving the accord. My 1986 Corolla GTS has more features than this stupid thing.

The camry comes with more for less than anything on the market. has Lexus looks, and typical toyota safety features. what is there bad to say about it? its V6 engine makes more power, has more displacement, and gets better gas milage than the VTEC equiped Honda Accord.

safety, reliablity, performance, looks...what can you say badly about the car? good decision imo.

 

[Toysrme]

Pro's and Con's to each car as you state....I guess FWD has come a long way over the years since I tinkered with them..

Maybe FWD isn't so bad after all...I personally have never driven a high powered FWD car... I do drive an 97 ES300 Lexus every now and then...It feels like a true FWD car to me, steering has the FWD feel under power and turning, peppy and light in weight...I look under the hood and it just looks like a hassle to work on.. I have not ventured to work on it yet...Sure it's just like the Camry's...

To me, I still like my older RWD SC400 feel much better.

Good info. Toys....

Yeah I'd like to have an SC400. I almost ditched my ES 300 for an early LS400, but I didn't like the size of the LS 400 I drove. Camry platform is pretty boaty, but the LS I drove was like hitting rock bottom & getting thrown a shovel. LoL! Felt alot bigger than it really was.




Toyota FWD is pretty sedate compaired to others with higher horsepower levels. The front end axle geometry is really good, so torque steer is not very bad even with an open differential. Lemmie put it this way... When my 93 ES 300 esd making 250whp @ 4500rpm it would hardly tug the wheel. Where as mom's '02 maxima with just 245hp will almost jump into another area code if you nail it coming out of a corner.
RedPhoenix always had a nice car. Whish you woulda given me the wheels. Sick.


RWD is probably alot easier to drive on a racing track, just because with FWD. I mean you could probably run the exact same lap times with equivilant setups. it's jsut that when you get a really stiff responcive FWD car setup. They're 9/10ths cars. Easy as everything to drive 90%, but if you get that tail end sliding out while you're booking it. You're probably not going to save it. (In ym experiance anyways). When you do break the back end out running really hard. It can be violent how quick they can snap! Best way I could tell ya, is get your car sideways, then hit your go button & try to keep it nose in front LoL!






I'm with Barry tho. When you're jsut driving, yeah Toyota's are pretty much the same minus the really sporty cars. They all use the same progressive type brakes, similar steering weights & ratios.
New accords are alot better tha old accords! The old ones are painfully slow because the v6's had almost no powerband. Camry & Maxima platforms always ate them alive. The newer 2az-fe i4 the Camry's use has about the same torque curve as the 3.0L Accord v6's. They just don't have the high rpm horsepower. (Think... Put an exhaust, intake & you've basically got a Honda v6 that get's 50% more gas mileage. tisk tisk tisk honda!)

 

[jibbby]

I drove the new Camry and there is a suttle difference with the FWD. Example; if you give hard gas around a corner the steering wheel feel is altered in comparison to a RWD SC400.....Also in general there is heavier steering wheel feel in the RWD cars as apposed to the lighter weight FWD cars, expecially in the older model vehicles... Under full excelleration there is suttle difference in the newer FWD cars as well.... I'm not saying it's bad I just personally prefer the RWD vehicle for the driving feel "under performance conditions", traction, and for the ease of maintenance and familiarity of it all....

There really is not a big difference between all newer cars when driving around town...FWD has come along way....

Another difference between a high powered FWD car and high powered RWD car is when you are both spinning the wheels under big power on straights or turns the FWD steering feel takes on a life of it's own where as there is no steering wheel pull one way or the other on the RWD cars.... These are the little differences that bother me the most...

 

[Toysrme]

When you drive an open differential FWD. Once you get to the point where you cans pin the tires at will. They'll both spin at will.
The traction control on the new Camry is terrible. It's very aggressive. Doesn't let you have any fun. :\




Jibby go retest one & this time pull the TRAC fuse in the glove box. It'll still be sliding around alot in the corners, but it wont be as understeery.
(With fwd, give it more gas & cut the wheel alittle more so you can use the torque of the newer v6's to drag the front of the car through the corner. Be careful tho. They've gotten toruey enough so that you can just loose the front end. )

Then go test a Maxima LoL! You want steering changes under throttle, go drive a Nissan (Not the new model, they finally called it quits with the sporty feel of massive torque steer & they got the geometry abit better). You'll learn the meaning of torque steer LoL!

 

[jibbby]

Toys, we got a 97 ES300 V6 front wheel drive Lexus in the family...I have driven it hard and it has as much power as any front wheel drive I have ever driven...It can getty up pretty well and power out of corners like you say...Again, the steering pull is so evident in the car under full throttle, front wheels start skipping and sliding, wheel shifts side to side, etc...It's just not my cup of tea...

Toys you go on enjoying the meaning of torque steer, while I will continue to enjoy the feeling of rear wheel torque... :fing02:

Thanks for all the feedback toys...You provided some good perks for the FWD rides....:headbang:

I wonder what percentage of cars are front wheel drive in Australia? I know in the UK it's something like 25-1.....Fuel effeciency being the main factor would be my guess...

 

[Toysrme]

Effeciancy, space & cost. That 97 has nothing for low end torque output. It's more upper mid-range. You don't know what you're missing.

 

[mshawari1]

Why it is not Nissan Altima 3.5 (The car of the year 2007) ??? less price … CVT …. What it missing ?​

 

[jibbby]

I think the Altima 3.5 is a nicer car to drive as well.....Don't know what is missing????...

 

[Toysrme]

Why it is not Nissan Altima 3.5 (The car of the year 2007) ??? less price … CVT …. What it missing ?​

I'm gunna go with, Altima's sell 20,000+ a month VS Camry's 30,000+ a month. The Camry is only about 5,000 unit sales a month from out-selling the Sentra, Altima & Maxima combined. :Eyecrazy:




And the new Altima may not have been avalible at the time.

 

[jibbby]

Toyota maybe has much better reputation then Nissan...That could be a factor that was considered maybe...

 

[mshawari1]

I see the magazine … Some thing wrong !!! also if they compare with the 2.4l version it will be different story