Supercharger Vs. Turbo- Off the Line Results

[jibbby]

What's quick enough? Remember XR8tt, I was mainly reffering to lag that is found in smaller turbo'd motors that just don't have much N/A power to begin with...

Paxton chargers will fit under any hood....NO WAY MAN not under the SC400 hood???WTF>>> not a chance as I have tried...Wrong buddy... Eatons yes, Paxtons no.....

Appears some comments here seem to made by people that don't own an SC400 and don't completely understand what fits under the hood and what doesn't...Back at you XR8tt...

No pun intended...If I am wrong then so be it...

 

[XR8tt]

The engineering that goes into fitting an Eaton would be about the same as a Paxton.. Yes the battery may have to moved etc..Time wise..

 

[Blizzy]

Paxton chargers will fit under any hood....NO WAY MAN not under the SC400 hood???WTF>>> not a chance as I have tried...Wrong buddy... Eatons yes, Paxtons no.....

Paxton's Novi 1000 blower is no bigger than the V9 blower than KC just put under his hood using "The Fish" bracket. For that matter, the Novi 2000 (Paxton's street monster blower) is just as capable of fitting under the hood.

You need to relocate the battery to make the blower work, but there is no doubt that damn near any centrifugal blower can fit under the hood of an SC400.

 

[jibbby]

Well I tried to measure one up under my SC400 a few years back with the boost pro's and we just couldn't find the room to fit it in, battery removal and fan removal was discussed also so I gave up on that notion..... Maybe I am wrong and should take another look the Novi 2000 Paxton Blower since both you guys are bringing this to my attention......

 

[jibbby]

Large root blowers don't stand a fitments chance in hell...Surely you guys agree with me on that one.... The hood to top of the 1uzfe engine clearance on the SC's just aren't all that much...

 

[XR8tt]

Large root blowers don't stand a fitments chance in hell...Surely you guys agree with me on that one.... The hood to top of the 1uzfe engine clearance on the SC's just aren't all that much...

YEP and there is no way around it either...
Other than fitting a Mack truck front on it...
Minor issue though... Lol....

 

[cribbj]

But a "real" Roots is begging to be up out of the hood with a big wide Gilmer belt and a bugcatcher intake.

Discreet and Roots don't go well together in the same sentence........

Guess I'm in a Mad Max mood tonite.

 

[scotturnot]

But a "real" Roots is begging to be up out of the hood with a big wide Gilmer belt and a bugcatcher intake.

Discreet and Roots don't go well together in the same sentence........

Guess I'm in a Mad Max mood tonite.

I'm with you on this 100%, I have tried this idea on another forum and didnt get a real positive response.
My statement was.

"Been thinking, What would a SC Look like slammed with a Big narly blower sticking out the hood? Maybe stage three is a built motor, huge blower, massive rear tires and skinny fronts. A real muscle car!"

Somthing more agressive than this, I'm talking the real deal but this gives a idea of how it would look.
http://www.bulletcars.com/products-...ot-rod-toyota-1uz-v8-supercharger-system.html

 

[cribbj]

Scott, I think one needs to have a bit of grey hair before a 6-71 and a bugcatcher is considered "cool". You & I fall into that category, along with a handful of others here.

The 30 and under crowd probably believe those big blowers are only for their grandpa's and their '57 Chebbies (Hmmm, well, I do happen to have 3 grandkids and 2 Suburbans)

As a side note, can you believe the original Mad Max film is nearly 30 years old?

Drifting even further O.T., I think the new 2008 Dodge Challenger:

would look waaaay cool with a 6-71 and bug catcher. These iPod connections are a bit out of place for those of us raised on 8 tracks but little indiscretions like that, and the gay looking rims could be forgiven if they'd only put a rompin stompin 426 Hemi in it. (although come to think of it, the torque of a blown 426 would probably wreck any production drivetrain available.)

Ahhh, the joys of cruisin Main Street 40 years ago with the top down and the 8 track blaring Steppenwolf's "Born to be Wild"......

 

[scotturnot]

Yeah, the good old days back when the saying “theres no replacement for displacement” was real. That Challenger is looking nice, I didn’t realize how closely it mimics the lines of the original car until you posted that picture. I must admit it has a lure to it. I will never give up my love for the American muscle cars but I’m loving my Toyota at the moment. Mad Max was 30 years ago? Didn’t he have a bogus switch that supposedly turned on that Blower? I was younger then but I seem to remember calling that BS at the time.
Kinda a Led fan myself, I have every album they recorded, yes Album's and CD's, I just caught the end of the 8 track era.

 

[jibbby]

I love the big root belt driven blowers and always have....Just brutal instant boost as long as the belt doesn't slip under full throttle on you.. Anyway, that would be a sight to see sticking way out of the hood on any SC400, however, it might look a little silly on an LS400 though....Would you be able to see the road when driving? I wish someone would try it just for kicks, sounds kinda cool in theory and would love to see that..

Yep you only see those root blowers occasionally sitting on top of the older muscle cars, like the 55' Belaires, Shelby Cobra's, Dodge Chargers, etc... You don't see that ever on any of the newer model cars, good point Cribbj......

I'm not sure it is even street legal to have a big root charger sticking out of your hood here in the States? Anyone?

 

[XR8tt]

I haven't got any grey hair YET but I won't see 50 again!!!
I think the SC400 type cars come into the ricer type of performance..
Though being V8 there is a cross section I guess???
One of my cars is American muscle engined, but I have gone the ricer way when it comes to power. I figure if you can get 300 h.p out of 2 ltr and be reliable and very streetable.. Then why not on a mildly stroked Ford motor? With two 600+ h.p turbo's ??
Mad Max is an Australian movie..The car was a 70's Ford Falcon coupe, powered by the humble 351 Cleveland.. Yes some B.S in that movie but I like the non bling and "pure grunt" that those cars had...
Due to emissions etc and its not legal to have anything as high which prevents vision with lower sleeker cars these days..

What also makes all these engines ultra responsive is high compression and forced induction when running alcohol.. Which isn't used on street engines..The E85 is close but that's Ethanol, not quite the same. But still makes good power when tuned for it...

To me newer cars its either under hood blowers / turbo's and leave the brute stuff to the older Detroit engines...Like fitting large dia and low profile tyres to a classic.. To some its not got that era.. Though Foose / Coddington seem to do a good job of it...

 

[jibbby]

Weland makes a nice blower system...I gotta say doesn't the root chargers just look brutal?

Also here is a pic of Paxton Centrifical charger when cut in half, check it....Simple and effective.. A couple of gears and a fan...

 

[jibbby]

What I would like to know is what is the life expectancy for a big turbo, big root charger and big cent. charger?...Which unit typically holds up the longest and is most reliable before breakage and or wearout?

This reliability issue might also help some in deciding also which boost application to choose from....I know I am all about reliability...Something tells me the root chargers once setup gives you the least amount of problems and trouble over time...

 

[XR8tt]

What I would like to know is what is the life expectancy for a big turbo, big root charger and big cent. charger?...Which unit typically holds up the longest and is most reliable before breakage and or wearout?

This reliability issue might also help some in deciding also which boost application to choose from....I know I am all about reliability...Something tells me the root chargers once setup gives you the least amount of problems and trouble over time...

Big call when turbo's on trucks can do millions of miles...
It would depend on set up and tune!!
A turbo itself is much easier and cheaper to replace.. But more expensive to fit in first place...

 

[Blizzy]

Maybe I am wrong and should take another look the Novi 2000 Paxton Blower since both you guys are bringing this to my attention......

I researched the Paxton blowers hard when I first purchased the Fish bracket. They are very reliable units. The Novi 2000RR is an absolute beast that can outblow almost every other "recreational" blower on the market (for lack of a better term). I am convinced that the Fish bracket can be modified to suit the Novi blower by drilling a couple more holes.

At ~$1800 brand new, the Novi 2000RR is an excellent value. You could sell your nitrous system and get half way home to the blower...with ~$1500 more to spend on brackets, pulleys, belts, intercooler, piping, wideband, etc. for a complete kit to make ~400whp. Something to think about...

Scott, I think one needs to have a bit of grey hair before a 6-71 and a bugcatcher is considered "cool". You & I fall into that category, along with a handful of others here.

The 30 and under crowd probably believe those big blowers are only for their grandpa's and their '57 Chebbies

I think a massive blower with a bugcatcher would be sweet on an SC. I would just hate to see it on Scott's pearl white beauty.

If adapting parts onto a Toyota V8 did not take so much money in the way of custom fabrication, I would be right there with you guys. Sadly, I am underpaid, undertooled, and underskilled. With my budget and fabrication skills, a mild 1UZ build and a slightly zany 2JZ build are about all I can handle. At least the 2JZ is going to make its way into a late 80's Cressida. As a 24 year old, I guess a 2JZ Cressida is my version kick ass "blast to the past" vehicle: a Japanese grandma sedan with balls.

I digress. Scott, if you get sick of the pearl white SC being a pampered beauty, you could always sell your VIP parts to fund the bugcatcher project.

 

[stevechumo]

Gents,
I think we're getting off the original topic...LOL. Which can be faster between turbo, root supercharger, and centrifugal supercharger given at the same psi? Let's say 9 psi. Forget about the tuning or other car factors and assume the car is properly tuned and prepared the same.

a. 1/4 mile
b. 0-60 mph
c. 20-80 mph
d. 80-120 mph
e. 120-160 mph. This is when the speed can be maxxed out or may be under this.

I'd like to compare them that way because that could somewhat show the car's true peformance.

 

[JustenGT8]

Turbo every time, no brainer just plain, simple physics

 

[cribbj]

Here's another way to look at it. Take three identical cars, and equip one with a turbo, one with a centrifugal SC, and one with a PD SC, and size the setups so that they all make 400 RWHP, maximum; this is important. Nobody will be allowed to have a HP advantage.

Obviously each one will make his peak 400 RWHP at different RPM's. I'm thinking the PD machine will make his at a fairly low RPM, the centrifugal will be next, and finally the turbo at the highest RPM.

Now have a 1/4 mile runoff. Here's how I predict it'll go:

The PD car is going to come out of the hole the quickest. Maybe even his 0-60 times will be the quickest.

The centrifugal will be 2nd out of the hole because he's still making some boost off the line, just not as much as the PD car.

Then, the centrifugal guy is going to start reeling the PD in because the PD's boost curve is flat, but the centrifugal's is still rising.

Somewhere down the line the turbo is going to start catching up to the centrifugal because his boost curve is rising faster than the centrifugal, and he doesn't have any belt losses, only a restricted exhaust system (from having a turbine "blocking" the exhaust).

So I'm thinking the winner will depend on how much lead the PD guy was able to grab at the start. IMO, it's whoever has the largest area under the HP curve who will win.

I would think somebody like Hot Rod Magazine has already done this?

 

[XR8tt]

Na most decent ROAD cars I see at drags are turbo...
You can change the goal posts if you like ...
When there's 20b's and 2J's runing in and well under 8 second, thats tuff..
Under that time they are usually runing alcohol...
If blowers where that good they'd be using them in world rally cars etc...