Project Thread LS 400 Single Turbo

[cribbj]

Fasteddie, can you (or anyone else) confirm the 3SGTE has, (or had) a shim under bucket arrangement, and 6mm valve stems?

If so, that should be a very clean solution. I was informed by both Manley and Supertech that the RB26 retainers were the only "shim under" type available for 6mm valve stems.

Pics of the retainers, shims, and their P/N's would be fantastic.

(I'm just about to pull the trigger on 32 titanium retainers for the RB26 from Manley, and I'll probably have to source the shims from Oz, so if there's an easier (read: Toyota) solution, let's have it!)

 

[Fasteddie]

Cribbj, what can I say....Arnout invested three or four weeks of research....and he made it work....we are convinced that this setup is what we need (high rpm, spring pressure etc etc.), will work AND will also allow us to easily drop in performance cams once we need them (eg. right spring pressure with 11mm of lift etc.)...

I know Arnout looked at the Nissan option but wasn't convinced. I agree on staying with a "Toyota" Solution...!

 

[JustenGT8]

JOhn,
I can confirm the Gen III onwards 3SGTE has shim under bucket. The US didn't receive any models with these engines though.

I'll check on the valve stem dia for you.

I'm using the 1UZ VVTi shim under under bucket which you have a plenty in the US....as long as the 3S retainers work then an easier option for you.

 

[Fasteddie]

Off course it has shim under bucket and the diameter is the same (5.5 or 6mm iirc).
But for the 3Sgte solution to work you will have to work on the heads since the 3Sgte spring diameter is bigger then the stock 1UZ springs, so you have to adjust the base where the spring sits.

 

[stevechumo]

Eddie,
Very nice build! At what boost did the rods break? I'd like to have somewhat a general idea on how much boost the post 1995 1UZ can take. Also, do you strenghten the suspension & chassis for the LS400? It seems the LS400 suspension & chassis may be a little bit soft for 500 rwhp & tq.

 

[Fasteddie]

Steve,

the skinny 1UZ rod broke at +/- 0.5 bar from a T88-34d. The untouched engine already had 260.000km on it, so it was unreal to expect it to last...
Now with the new built block we will see the real figures for this 1UZ, the block should be able to handle somewhere between 800 and 1000hp...maybe now the Boostlogic built Transmission becomes the weakest part of the setup, but we have to find out....the torque could kill it but we will put on a nice cooler for the transmission.
One other thing about the stock 1UZ is that the 1UZ sleeves can "only" handle about 900hp...so for a real reliable 1000hp you have to sleeve the 1UZ...!...to add some strenght we grouted the 1UZ for about 50%.
We will stop with the 1UZ at about 550-600 rwhp....hopefully even below 21 psi....

I havent touched the suspension & chassis of the LS yet...but i will go with coilovers for sure...and lose the air suspension. Maybe we have to do some welding to the chassis aswell, but we will see...
First we need to get rolling again...

When the LS is in the shop again i will post some pictures of the custom made exhaust...

 

[Arnout]

you read about this arnout guy everywhere!
here is a pick of the retainers.

 

[spf_lexus]

the skinny 1UZ rod broke at +/- 0.5 bar from a T88-34d

So the rods blew at 7PSI? Wow, thats weak, i was hoping to squeeze by with my 7psi setup. Guess i'll be swapping the 1uz's for sure and quit the debate finally lol.

 

[cribbj]

you read about this arnout guy everywhere!
here is a pick of the retainers.

That pic is great Arnout, thanks. Definitely shows the shim recess.

Last question - can you confirm those retainers are for 6mm stem diameters?

That's the only failing with the retainers for the 2/3UZ, and the VVTi version of the 1UZ - they only fit 5.5mm stems, and the early (non-VVTi) 1UZ's that most of us are building, uses 6.0mm stems.

When my last motor went together and I took the decision to go with the shim under bucket setup, we did use 2UZ retainers, and remachined them for 6.0mm stems, but as Dennis my builder said, "Let's not make a habit of doing this." as the retainers were pretty tough to machine.

 

[Arnout]

how much confirmation do you need?

but beware, using these retainers will get you into a lot of other problems that need to be tackled (machined).

 

[JustenGT8]

With the right tooling the retainers can't be that tough? Only taking off 0.25mm?

How about valve stem length Cribbj? I'm not keen to be needing super thick custom shims?

Arnout,, did you have to try the 3S retainers with the UZ valve springs...if you can sneak the springs in then bingo, should all go together easy?

 

[cribbj]

how much confirmation do you need?

but beware, using these retainers will get you into a lot of other problems that need to be tackled (machined).

Arnout, a simple "yes these retainers will work fine for the 1UZ's 6.0mm valve stems, because that's the same size the 3SGTE uses" would be fine.... onder:

Sorry if the question seems too simplistic to both you & Fasteddie, but I'm sure some of us would like to know in advance before we buy 32 retainers, then find they're for the wrong valve stem diameter.

If you'd care to expand on that statement ".....but beware, using these retainers will get you into a lot of other problems that need to be tackled (machined)." I'm sure many of us will be anxiously awaiting your next installment......:hail:

Justen, I personally can't speak for the difficulty in machining these retainers; all I know is that my guy doesn't ever want to see 32 of these things again.

 

[JBrady]

So the rods blew at 7PSI? Wow, thats weak, i was hoping to squeeze by with my 7psi setup. Guess i'll be swapping the 1uz's for sure and quit the debate finally lol.

Actually, his 1995+ engine had the "skinny" rods. Your 1991 have the "thick" rods which have been proven at 600+hp by JustenGT. Justen has ran as high as 25psi with his twin charged setup. Of course it must have a correct "tune".

 

[spf_lexus]

Oh I know that, I started a 4.7 2uz swap(1uz heads) and was debating whether 1uz rods were even needed to cover my base of 7psi... but I guess these should never be messed with under FI.

I was hoping 10psi was going to be the threshold but if I'm taking the time to make this work i might as well do it right so rods and a re balance are in order.

 

[Fasteddie]

...installed:

 

[M3TURBO]

Steve,

One other thing about the stock 1UZ is that the 1UZ sleeves can "only" handle about 900hp...so for a real reliable 1000hp you have to sleeve the 1UZ...!...to add some strenght we grouted the 1UZ for about 50%.
We will stop with the 1UZ at about 550-600 rwhp....hopefully even below 21 psi....

Hi Fasteddie,

Interesting point.

How do you know the stock sleeve's have only a 900HP safe limit? Do you mean even with the stock bore size? Is this becuase of sleeve wall integrity (too thin, bores bulging allowing blowby?) or sleeve fixture integrity? What over-bore are you running? Are there documented case's of sleeve problems/failures?

What is the expected limit increase with a half grout on stock sleeves and what did you use to grout your block? A half grout will only support the lower part of the sleeve, it might help stop movement, but cylinder pressure is near the top of the sleeve! Did you sleeve your block?

Reason I ask is that some local tuners are reportedly running well over a 1000HP with stock sleeve's reliably, "or maybe they beefed up their sleeves and keep it secret"!

Now I am about to push mine over this level, stock bore's +0.25mm.

 

[Pro]

i'd also like to know if it's just a basic 35mPA conc mix, or a special grout.

i've heard that Prius buckets and shims are generally the right height as well.

 

[Fasteddie]

How do you know the stock sleeve's have only a 900HP safe limit?

We got this info from the guy that built this 1UZ: http://www.rats.no/omega_tg.html
He reported sleeve breaking around this level of hp....albeit from a superharger, after sleeving the block was bulletproof and made 1005hp.

For the grouting we use: hardblock: http://www.hardblok.com/info.html
We are using no sleeves for the 1UZ, just hardblock, slight overbore. The 3UZ we are working on will be sleeved though.

 

[JBrady]

We got this info from the guy that built this 1UZ: http://www.rats.no/omega_tg.html
He reported sleeve breaking around this level of hp....albeit from a superharger, after sleeving the block was bulletproof and made 1005hp.

For the grouting we use: hardblock: http://www.hardblok.com/info.html
We are using no sleeves for the 1UZ, just hardblock, slight overbore. The 3UZ we are working on will be sleeved though.

Patrick,

Have you had a chance to test those modified VVTi camshafts yet?

 

[Fasteddie]

...nope, since they are for the 3UZ...first we will finish the 1UZ....
I wish we could have tested them :cool2:...they look soooo sweet !

Specs:
0.368 lift, 234 in/ex @ 0.050
We ordered them through Eric at T T C...and he predicted "4 digit hp and performance all the way until redline..."....