Learning About Australia

[JustenGT8]

I didn't say religion couldn't teach those things....just that they don't, well don't appear to anyways. They do appear to propogate, inequality, predudice, intolerance, greed and geberally set a poor example to society in general.

The ideal and reality are quantums apart where religion is concerned appears to be the unfortunate reality

As you say "Maybe if people had more respect and treated everyone else as equals we wouldn't have the probs we do today." and i couldn't agree more.

"Just a thought or two for you to ponder." No need to be patronising mate, i've been around long enough to know **** from clay.

 

[XR8tt]

Good religion in moderation? where do i find one of those ;-) Morals come from societal values, both taught and adsorbed....i don't see religions teaching much at all? lots of preaching, rules and limitations though?

EXACTLY!! Listen to TV early in the morning.. The religious preaching, yelling is B.S...I won't go into what country it comes from.. But fair dinkum!!
Talk about social and good up bringing?? I'm sure the way some children that have been molested by church ministers wouldn't say it was good up bring and good family life...
IMO it was bought about in the old days when we where not educated.. The lords and kings bought commandments in to control the people..
I'll let my concins [sp] do the right thing..

 

[stormtrooper]

I'm glad you know your earthern substances.

If you think I'm patronising then methinks you need to get outside a little more often. If I cant ask you a simple question and make some simple statements and then say think about it then there is something wrong.

Religion isn't what teaches the things you just referred to, what teaches those things is man's flawed reasoning. If someone thinks they are better than someone else then they have a problem. If someone uses that problem to tell others that the group they are from is better then others and uses religion to sprout that then everyone else has a problem.

Christianity teaches respect yet in South Africa for nigh on 50 years upper class Afrikaneers used their flawed reasoning and flawed interpretations of the Bible to say native Africans were not even human. Religion didn't teach that, a group with a political agenda did.

I often find those who make comment about how bad religion is often resort to this type of thing when people try to discuss it with them. Oh well, crap happens I suppose.

 

[JustenGT8]

If you think I'm patronising then methinks you need to get outside a little more often. If I cant ask you a simple question and make some simple statements and then say think about it then there is something wrong.

Religion isn't what teaches the things you just referred to, what teaches those things is man's flawed reasoning.

I often find those who make comment about how bad religion is often resort to this type of thing when people try to discuss it with them. Oh well, crap happens I suppose.

Sounds like more P to me but anyways .

Religion may not but religions do....easy to bundle then together as most of the time effectively the same thing. Once again, the ideal is far from reality.

pfft conversion disguised as 'discussion' in most cases i often find

 

[jibbby]

Good religion in moderation? where do i find one of those ;-) Morals come from societal values, both taught and adsorbed....i don't see religions teaching much at all? lots of preaching, rules and limitations though?

Ever heard of the ten commandments Justen my boy? That is just one example of one religion and what I personally was taught growing up..... Not to kill, steal and basically hurt others kinda things... What can be wrong with that? That's the part of some religions that I think is good to learn as a young lad surely you must agree with that and only that?..... Maybe some can get that from society and their parents alone but I think not all....You also have a higher power to account too which is big for some, and a hope after death which is so valuable too so many...Especially the ones with crappy lives and that are poor in this world...How bad can that be?

I also am of aware of the John Lenon theory and song, no religion no wars, but he says "imagine all the people living as one in peace"... Can't get that without good sound morals from all...

Religion gone bad is not good of course... However, too much of anything is usually bad for you in life, alcohol, drugs, etc.....That is why I say moderation... A happy medium...

 

[jibbby]

I don't like the preachers shooting the breeze either, yelling and shouting rules and limitations, etc, most annoying but you get that from your parents and society too anyway in a sense... I understand why people push their religions onto others too, they only want to share the good news that made them fulfilled and also maybe get brownie points from their god.... That can get annoying too for many with other beliefs, especially atheists........ Living and doing for others rather then just for yourself can bring a inner happyness which most don't know about though...

Back to religion and politics being a very difficult discussion to keep civil... Take a firm side on religion and politics publically and you instantly get strong friends and strong enemies... Stay humble and keep your beliefs inside and you have many good friends and fewer enemies..

 

[XR8tt]

Many forums don't allow politics and religion discussions for this very reason..
The main part is not to take it to hart and understand its the other persons perception of things which can often be overemphasized.. Like at the time when you have car troubles? You think and say the worst.. Then when its fixed.. Its the best car you've ever owned.. [I mentioned car being car forum]
Also this discussion is in text so its hard to understand the way its meant..
In many ways its good to debate this ? But I bet there are others reading this thinking whats going on!!! Way off subject !!
We don't like new settlers here trying to change out culture.. If they DON'T LIKE THEY CAN GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM..
In some cases Christmas carols are not played in shopping centres etc..
Because it offends ...Well if they don't like it..LEAVE!!
Some Macdonalds don't have bacon in there macmuffens..
Now they want us to change the laws so they can have multiple wives..
Sheesh !!!

 

[jibbby]

Xr8tt - I second that notion...

I like this forum because you can discuss these subjects with friends from different countries like Australia, New Zealand, etc...whom post with a good amount of intelegence too I might ad..... Gives you a new perspective sometimes, and you learn things as well..... It's always nice to hear what other smart people think in foreign lands and what they think of your country and people too.....Good or bad... That goes for me atleast, and that's why I appreciate this forum and this thread..... No beating around the bush with you guys and I really like that...

Cheers people.....:beerchug: I am really suprised it's been this civil so far discussing these very touchy subjects...Wow!!!! Very mature of you folks... Most forums would have errupted by now...
Stormy and Pro came close to blows but kept it cool...:swordfight:

 

[stormtrooper]

Stormy and Pro came close to blows but kept it cool...:swordfight:

Lol, I push peoples buttons by using what they say against them, most people react badly straight away because they don't like to think that what they have said can be used another way.

All in all this was extremely tame compared to other discussion I have been in. I had one avowed atheist going off at me in another forum cause I asked him to tell me what he believed in, after weeks of him telling me I was delusional and worried about what was on the other side of death so I had to have something to make me feel better about myself, anyway it took him a couple of days to say he didn't have a clue what the meaning of life was and he just hated Christianity. That is the point I stopped taking part in that discussion cause it wasn't going to go anywhere.

 

[JustenGT8]

Ever heard of the ten commandments Justen my boy? That is just one example of one religion and what I personally was taught growing up..... Not to kill, steal and basically hurt others kinda things... What can be wrong with that? That's the part of some religions that I think is good to learn as a young lad surely you must agree with that and only that?.....

LOL and exactly what religion generated those Jibbby ?

 

[jibbby]

Good ole Moe and his staff, you know parting the red sea and freeing the slaves and what not...Old testimate stuff with the jews my friend... Some say he was carrying 15 commandments but dropped a slab, not sure on that one... Are you being sarcastic Justen? I can go along with that too..... Catholism incorporates the 10 commandments as well as Christianity as you should know.....

Justen, you wanna seek a higher power maybe other then your car? Search and seek and you may just find, you never know?.... Oh and by the way you know I can still take you in my SC4 off the line, you know that right? I just got some new treads and they are very very sticky... I am in the process of rebuilding the old SC400 and she's coming along just fine... I was talked out of putting her to rest... She's baaaacccckkkkkk and fast!!!!


Ps... Good for you Stormtroop as you should speak your mind as you see fit...

2nd PS...This is funny that I just watched an interesting show today on the Biography channel about the research on life after death... Very enlightning to say the least... They did many studies and came up with this - 15% of people in the US have seen a ghost or house hauntings of some sort, 45% believe in a spiratual realm, they interviewed phsycic detectives that were right on the money, reputable law enforcement people that confirmed this stuff too....Out of body experiences when flat lined...Alot of hard studies by reputable people and doctors that will open even an atheists eye or two about the possibility of a spiratual or supernatural realm of some sort existing..... Sheer numbers of sworn testimonies that are very hard to dispute...

 

[XR8tt]

To a point, we don't necessary need religion to have a happy life etc...
We are way better educated these days..
I know right and wrong without religion..
My son and wife are doing a TOP job bring up there son...
Yes I'm a grandfather..
My parents did the same with myself and other two brothers...
We had it tought at school back then. But didn't play too much of a role
in growing up.

 

[JustenGT8]

Good ole Moe and his staff, you know parting the red sea and freeing the slaves and what not...Old testimate stuff with the jews my friend... Some say he was carrying 15 commandments but dropped a slab, not sure on that one... Are you being sarcastic Justen? I can go along with that too..... Catholism incorporates the 10 commandments as well as Christianity as you should know.....

Justen, you wanna seek a higher power maybe other then your car? Search and seek and you may just find, you never know?.... Oh and by the way you know I can still take you in my SC4 off the line, you know that right? I just got some new treads and they are very very sticky... I am in the process of rebuilding the old SC400 and she's coming along just fine... I was talked out of putting her to rest... She's baaaacccckkkkkk and fast!!!!

A note of sarcasm yes....from, the 'stories' they came direct from God so no religion. If not actually the case then they came from a wise man of the day translating the social morals of same...religion has no claim other than what they want you to believe ie they have all the answers.

I'm happy enough finding my own answers, which may or may not involve some supreme being. Happy for others to find their own way as well but no one can tell me that the instituitions that claim to help you do so are without fault.....more history is written about the tragedies caused in the name of religion than any other subject. Now there's something to think about


and on an automotive note i believe i have you covered Jibbby

 

[shallis2]

its the block of wood that gives that extra edge!

 

[stormtrooper]

I'm happy enough finding my own answers, which may or may not involve some supreme being. Happy for others to find their own way as well but no one can tell me that the instituitions that claim to help you do so are without fault.....more history is written about the tragedies caused in the name of religion than any other subject. Now there's something to think about

I agree there has been alot of things written about concerning the faults of religion, but let me tell you science has a lot to answer for and it has only been going for about 2 centuries. When science is used to "prove" that Jews, Gypsies, Negroids etc are lower than White man then there is a real problem. Don't tell me it doesn't happen cause I know for a fact it does. One major point of our last election was fought on apologising to our Indigenous peoples based on what the rest of Australia allowed our past governments to do to them and our past governments did what they did based on scientific "fact". Australia was occupied based on Terra Australis (land incognito meaning not occupied or used in any meaningful way) but the planned genocide and "breeding out" was purely science.

The genocide of the Jewish people and the Gypsies peoples in Nazi occupied Europe, and even in the USSR under people like Stalin, the forced relocations of native peoples around the world including America and many other British occupied nations also the nations occupied by other European colonial powers were done so on the basis of science. The tragedy that is Rwanda is because of science when first the Germans and then the Dutch categorised the native Rwandans according to "favourable" white like features such as a thin long nose against a thick flat nose which was considered black, into Hutu and Tutsi groups (we now know the blood groups are so mixed there is no way of telling what is what) which later caused a bloody civil war and genocidal atrocities that are unbelievable to read about let alone commit, all because of white man science which said that the white man will control the world cause he is better than everyone else.

I understand people blaming "religion" for things but not when they wont also blame science for its faults and the problems it has caused.

btw nice celica.

 

[Zuffen]

Nah, it's the mismatched wheels.

Just taking the P.

Good looking gadget.

It makes me jealous.

Now which Comandment was that. "Thou shalt not covet thy fellow Forum members Toyota?"

 

[JustenGT8]

I agree there has been alot of things written about concerning the faults of religion, but let me tell you science has a lot to answer for and it has only been going for about 2 centuries. When science is used to "prove" that Jews, Gypsies, Negroids etc are lower than White man then there is a real problem. Don't tell me it doesn't happen cause I know for a fact it does. One major point of our last election was fought on apologising to our Indigenous peoples based on what the rest of Australia allowed our past governments to do to them and our past governments did what they did based on scientific "fact". Australia was occupied based on Terra Australis (land incognito meaning not occupied or used in any meaningful way) but the planned genocide and "breeding out" was purely science.

The genocide of the Jewish people and the Gypsies peoples in Nazi occupied Europe, and even in the USSR under people like Stalin, the forced relocations of native peoples around the world including America and many other British occupied nations also the nations occupied by other European colonial powers were done so on the basis of science. The tragedy that is Rwanda is because of science when first the Germans and then the Dutch categorised the native Rwandans according to "favourable" white like features such as a thin long nose against a thick flat nose which was considered black, into Hutu and Tutsi groups (we now know the blood groups are so mixed there is no way of telling what is what) which later caused a bloody civil war and genocidal atrocities that are unbelievable to read about let alone commit, all because of white man science which said that the white man will control the world cause he is better than everyone else.

I understand people blaming "religion" for things but not when they wont also blame science for its faults and the problems it has caused.

btw nice celica.

I can't agree sorry mate.....these guys may have tried to justify their actions by using/abusing science but the atrocities were not commited in the name of science.

That's not to say science is blameless in the world...it has given us things like the A bomb that we could well do without.

Anyways, i'm done on this topic. Overpopulation and greed will be our downfall so until we figure out how to beat that one take comfort where you find it i say.

 

[jibbby]

Science and technology has given mankind the green light to polute and destroy this world slowly thru the years... It's given man the easiest ways to carry on thru daily life without using much physical energy making many fat and lazy including our kids.. Convenience, entertainment and education thru technology...(TV, gadgets, computers, cars, etc..) Medicine thru science continues to get better to combat all this.......Lipo, dietary supplements, lipitor, high blood pressure meds, Viagra, etc...

Mankind is responsible for science and technology being of negative use..Blame mankind on it and not science and technology... Although on a bright note we are becoming more aware of the damage we are causing and are actually now using technology and science to help right our wrongs.. Cleaner burning fuels, solar power, etc...Better medicines, healthier foods maybe, etc... Just maybe Technology and science may catch up and fix the destruction man has created and actually ensure us all a bright future, you never know..... I dought it though... So, in conclusion I would have to say we are all pretty much screwed!!!!! Enjoy the ride people while it lasts as we've certainly earned it...

Religion and Science - I see nothing wrong with either, it's the selfishness, greed, stupidy and ignorance of mankind that twists these two from potential positives into certain negatives in so many ways..

 

[jibbby]

Justen what does that older Supra have that my SC4 doesn't? I'll take that one too...

Your better off posting pics of your beastly GT8, no?:fing02:

 

[stormtrooper]

I can't agree sorry mate.....these guys may have tried to justify their actions by using/abusing science but the atrocities were not commited in the name of science.

Nazi Germany sponsored MA and phD students to study the "Jewish" and Gyspy DNA and find anything in that that they could later extract (when the technology was available) to make the Aryan peoples even better than the alredy supposedly perfect that they apparently were. None of the studies found anything, suprising hey, and in the name of science the "Jewish" and Gyspy peoples were assigned to death camps to be exterminated and so the German armies could have soap on the front line. Our own Australian government was torn between the inevitable of letting the Indigenous peoples of Australia die out naturally or helping them on their way as science said it would be better for the world. They chose to help them cause science said so.

Anyways, i'm done on this topic. Overpopulation and greed will be our downfall so until we figure out how to beat that one take comfort where you find it i say.

Just when the topic becomes interesting you leave. Oh well if you think over-population will be our downfall google the Malthusian Dilema and you'll find a wealth of info.