HP Gain w/o super/turbocharger

[feztallica]

I live in cali, and as you may know, super/turbocharging make the car not street legal. SO, what are some of the most effecient ways that you guys have gained some HP? Also, is it possible to get around 350 rwhp without a super or turbo? thank a you

 

[feztallica]

yes, so actually 300 would be good. so yeah. and uh you guys can post at any time... yup... mm hmm... alrighty... okay... yup... :feedback: :redface:

 

[Anaema]

raise the compression, port and extrude hone, valve job, coat the whole engine with stuff.

 

[jibbby]

NOS/NITROUS.....I also live in Cali and I passed smog 6 months ago with my nos system installed....If you get a piggy back ECU you may have to disconnect and then reconnect as that sometimes enables you to pass smog.....Headers, you most likely will not pass smog once you delete the EGR to accomodate the headers, although I have some still pass smog.........These are things I have had to deal with....

 

[GSMnow]

I am also watching here to see what any one else comes up with. My 83 Celica 1UZ should be running and coming out to Cali in a couple months now. 250 crank hp in a 2700 pound car may seem like fun, but we always want more. My first thoughts were to run a little more aggressive cams and have the ECU tweaked to rev it out to 7200 rpm to make use of them. It seems a crime to rev limit that jewel of an engine to just 6200. As long as the ECU still shows no codes and it is clean enough at the pipe, they will never know it has cams in it.

Since I am doing my "engine change" (Cali smog legal term) in Illinois, and will have it all certified there, I am hoping to get away with a few short cuts when I bring it in. I am honestly trying to keep the conversion as close to the legal rules as possible. The only things I am bending is the air box needs a small trim where the snorkel went over the radiator to clear my core supprt, the left side exhaust manifold had to be altered for steering shaft clearance, and the catalytic converters have to be moved a bit further back since they won't fit between the bell housing and frame rails. Everything else is going to be stock 93 Lexus LS-400. Beyond the cats I am using 2.25 inch pipe into a "Y" to 2.5 inch piping to a DynoMax Ultra Flow muffler. I hope it is not too loud. My turbo 4 banger used a single CatCo 2.5 inch cat and the Ultra Flow and it had a nice low rumble with a bit of a growl under load. Without the turbo acting as a pre muffler though, it may be a bit harsh. I can't wait to find out.

Gary M.

 

[jibbby]

Welcome to Cali, you'll love the weather and hate the traffic...People are a bit shallow in the big cities as well.... It might also be a good idea to import a wife with you....City women are a hand full here in LA, again for the most part......

Anyway, if your exhaust ends up being too loud consider installing dual stainless steel high flowing resonators behind your mufflers....I got two new ones off ebay for $30 each and put them on...They quieted things down some without sacrificing performance...Just a suggestion.. Let me see if I got a picture for you....this is not a great picture but those shinny things on the rear section are the resonators...

 

[WDoherty]

you can't tweak the ecu to 7200, your stuck at 6500 with a stock ecu.

 

[Pro]

a set of new catalytic convertors should go a long way - new ones are only good for 5 years.

 

[Peewee]

you can't tweak the ecu to 7200, your stuck at 6500 with a stock ecu.

You can, but there are only a couple of people in the world who know how to do it.

So its as good as saying it can't be done.

 

[Pro]

mr bloody technical!!! LOL.

 

[jibbby]

That 6500rpm cut off limit is a real downer.. It can really throw a wrench in the mix when upgrading to a great set of performance cams...I wonder if that new STM7 (the famous king of piggybacks) can tweak out the rev limit? We know the STM6 cannot....A stand alone ECU is the only option I see as to getting the RPMs peaking past the rev meter.... I would really like to get cams too and am waiting for Lex as he has planned to fab a set of performance cams for our SC4's for around $450... That is in the works....(25hp gains to be expected with those re-grinds).

Curious? what happens when the rev limit cuts at 6500? Does the engine just shut off and leave you coasting with no power brakes or power steering? This stinks!!!!!!!!

What are you going to do Wdoherty? I know you want the cams just like I do but probably don't want to spend the mulla $$$$ on a good Stand ALone and then deal with all the wiring and tuning that is involved.... I do know that there are some nice benifits with a Stand Alone for our cars because you now become the boss of the computer management system as apposed to the stock ECU with limits and cut off points.... What blows me away is a Stand Alone can also help with transmission shifts... To me that is amazing and I don't understand how that works out...

 

[jibbby]

You can, but there are only a couple of people in the world who know how to do it.

So its as good as saying it can't be done.

Peewee by any chance are you one of those couple people?:veryhappy

 

[WDoherty]

What i am going to do? Well jibby, the difference is i am not planning on modding my sc400. I plan on selling it and a later possible project is getting a 1uz and slapping it in the 77 celica. Now this would be easier to run a standalone in b/c it is carbed already and just well, simple. I wouldn't have the balls to try a standalone in the sc body b/c of all of the complications of the lex. But, the standalone i am looking at that possible project is very cheap around $250 for an unassembled kit, the megasquirt. Of course you have to soilder it together buy other stuff and do a lot of work, but it looks like an affordable alternative to the other standalones. When you hit fuel cut it just bounces the revs down a bit and goes back, you probably don't notice it b/c the automatic shifts right about that time. So, if you want to make power in an sc400 and utilize the stock ecu you have to go with forced induction b/c you can make the power without having to rev the crap out of it. And even with some mild cams you could move your peak from 5600 to 6500 with a pretty decent gain.

 

[jibbby]

Well Wdoherty my friend, I know there is no science to installing a Stand Alone ECU and even tuning on a LEX.... Infact I almost hired TODD at TM engineering a year ago to put one in and tune for $1500......He seemed to think it was no big deal and said he could have my car done in one day tuned and ready to go...He told me they are very solid and reliable and once tuned it should be good to go for a while..He explained to me and showed me everything but I forgot the details after a year...alot of careful wiring involved... With a Stand Alone's you are the boss of everything and if installed and tuned properly they are the best way to go to get the most out of the computer engine management system...

However, Todd and I had a fall out..so it never happened as I had planned.. A year later I am still really trying to learn this tuning stuff...programs and what not...I never want to have to rely on a mechanic to fine tune my car ever again...That is one of my current goals...Just trying to figure out which Stand Alone ECU would work best for my SC4 and be the most user friendly.. I have seen programs and independant tuner machines..Just need to pick the right one and learn, install and tune......Get the wiring diagram to stock ECU and then wire in professionally wire by wire into the new stand alone as the instructions illustrate...Infact the installation is not the worry it is the tuning part that I am not comfortable with yet... Unfortunately, I don't have any pro tuning friends to offer the technical help so I am on my own on this one...Which is fine, I like a good challenge...

By the way does anyone on this thread have any real experience with installing and tuning a Stand Alone, if so can you offer any advice or tips for us beginners?

 

[WDoherty]

man, i'd love to see you pull it off, it would be awesome.

 

[jibbby]

Me too man......I plan on making a move on it shortly..I was hoping to find a friend who can help me in a pinch if I screw things up...I do have a friend in my area who does the piggy's but not stand alones.....

 

[stevechumo]

I always let the tuning shop to tune the cars after the turbo systems were done. But there's one time that I actually tuned the car myself without proper tools/software. That's when I tuned it based on my real street driving. The car actually ran very fast for a few hours. The result is a broken first piston/rings. And after that, I told myself to always stay away from tuning, unless I can get the right tools and training. I heard of terrible stories of broken pistons/rings and holed blocks just right after a few pulls without correct tuning.

 

[GSMnow]

TechTom makes a board with a programmable ROM they install inside the ECU that can alter rev limints and shift rpm points on the 1UZ. It is far from cheap, but I think it is the way to go. They list it for the SC400, but not specifically for the LS-400. I would assume the code is similar, but the SC has that hydro fan setup. Is that ECU controlled?

Here is a link to a dealer in Cali. but the site is being upgraded and I could not see anything now.
http://www.technosquareinc.com/

Here is a blurb about them
http://www.club4ag.com/Technosquare/TechnoSquare.htm

I even called them and they said no problem raising rev limits and shift rpms on the auto trans.

On a side note, a few years ago I stumbled on a cheap way to raise rev limit a bit. It was on a crappy late 80's Nissan that would not even start. It turned out the ECU got soaked in CocaCola. The acid ate the leads off off the crystal in the ECU. I could not find an exact match at the electronics store by me, but I got one a little higher frequency. Not only did the engine fire up, but it revved about 10% higher before the fuel cut hit. It also idles 10% higher and reported 10% lower rpm readings to the scan tool. Of course it was probably making 10% shorter injector pulses but the closed loop fixed that since the learn memory was blank from being out of the car beaing worked on. On our 1UZ's this would lean the mixtur eeven further as the frequncy from the AFM will also seem lower to the ECU so it will command an even shorter pulse width. I figure a 10% crystal frequency increase would require a 20% or more increase in fuel pressure to make it happy, but if the fuel cut happens at 6500, this should make it rev to 7150 before it cuts. Of course the 650 rpm idle will now be 715 as well.

Gary M.

 

[jibbby]

Gary, good post...The sc400 hydo fan can be unplugged and dealed with no apparent ill effects to the engine and ECU except for an oil light that comes on when turning hard or excellerating fast that is all, engine still runs perfect and everything remains the same.. I deleted my hydro pump a while back but that oil light still comes on today...


Steve - tuning is a delicate job as you learned, and experimenting and tweaking for the first time when tuning could mean blowing the motor if you don't know what you are doing...That is why I said I am still a little scared...I have read how to, looked into different systems, and read many write ups...Still when it comes down to it and doing it myself I would sure like the help of a tuning pro next to me.... I would not be thrilled about blowing my motor up.... However, I will be extra careful and take my time and get all the setting where they should be when I am ready...I may or not be able to pull this off wihen tuning while running nos and pushing the stock internals to the limit but I am willing to give it a try...Nothing ventured nothing gained.... I really want to be a good tuner one day, that would eliminate the need of a mechanic for me except for internal tranny work. (I have not ventured there yet)......I believe you have to learn regardless of fear of failure or success, like when I deleting my hydro fan and failed on my brake swap...really had no idea how it would work out but through trial and error I figured it all out. Succeeded in one and failed in the other...Hopefully tuning a stand alone or advanced piggy will be the same even though it is alot more technical...

Steve buddy, You are welcome to come over and watch me blow up my motor when I attempt to tune...(He He) Just bring body armer and sign a waver for when the intake manifold, headers, pistons and rods start flying from my car.....:yikes: