biggest useable turbo on a 1UZFE?

[Pro]

well, i have a gigantic KKK unit. it's so big, it has trouble fitting next to the engine in the battery bay of a good mate's 308 HZ stato engine bay (big engine bay for the amercans out there).

it's a twin entry - so to see if it would spool we stuck a pair of leaf blowers up to it, with some scrap 50mm PVC pipe we had lying around and a lot of duct tape (saves the planet that stuff) and it started to spin - - - - at about the same pace as my bedroom fan!!!!!

i'm pretty much giving up any chance using this turbo, and considering i picked it up for about A$200, 3 years ago, it'll make a great shed talking point if nothing else.

so, for a 1UZFE, what would y'all consider out there to be the largest useable turbocharger for use with a powerglide...?

i'll have to break the code of silence here - i'm building a 1320ft monster. nothing flash, on a budget. the car is irrelevant but it's a shade over 1000kg (2200lbs) from the factory. i'm planning on using a powerglide for ease of installation, size, weight, parts availability and the fact that 2 high gears should help spool up a large turbo by loading the engine up a little more. planning a stallie, transbrake etc - the works.

i guess i could do this with just taller diff gears and, say, a T350 - and i'm certainly open to the pros and cons of each. i've only ever owned NA cars biased towards circuit racing, but in the older age with 3 kiddies to mollycoddle around town, one loses the desire to take corners at breakneck speeds a little or build cars to take advantage of such.

so, the original question. biggest useable turbo for a 1UZFE with a built auto behind it...? single is the only option due to space limitations in the small car.

* edit - should prob note i have been looking at the GT3540 with a 1.05exh - too small? for some reason i seem to think so*

and no Peewee, it's not a KE70 .

 

[cjsupra90]

The first question that has to be addressed here is how much power are you looking at producing??

You cant just say "whats the biggest" cause it might not be the best depending on your goal.. Turbos should never be chosen based on what will and what wont fit or work, the should be chosen based on goals that you want to achieve with the engine.

Set goals that you want to achieve, then build the car / engine and drivetrain to suit

 

[18crxt]

have you looked at the bullseye power s510 turbo. is yours the same size as this one.

if the turbo is large enough also you could use a 100shot to spool it off the line. so no turbo is really to big.

 

[cjsupra90]

have you looked at the bullseye power s510 turbo. is yours the same size as this one.

if the turbo is large enough also you could use a 100shot to spool it off the line. so no turbo is really to big.

Umm, you might want to do a little studying on compressors, thermal dynamics and fluid dynamics before you make the statment that "no turbo is really too big"

Umm, have you ever heard of surge limit or know what the surge line is on a compressor map??? Im guessing not based on your statement that no turbo is really too big.

The internet can be a great place for info, but it can be a really bad place too because of people making statements about concepts that they know nothing about.

 

[18crxt]

yes i know about turbo dynamics. surge , choke, ratios of speed to flow and so on.
i was just saying that if needed a turbo thats rather large for a application unless theres going to be additions in air flow or other mods to increase exhaust flow. then really a turbo isnt to big. with in reason . the flow you want and need needs to be in the map or else you have choke or over the line. and the thing of efficency plays there also. theres a reason why if you have to small of a turbo and you keep cranking the boost you make no power or lose power.
sorry if my statment was a litle out of wack. lots of calulation goes into making a good setup. if there was more info on his turbo and his setup it would be a little better to say if the turbo "is too big"

 

[Pro]

okay - specifics.

the idea is to build a 1000kg car that will run a flat 11 - maybe a little quicker.

any faster and i need to fit a full rollcage as per ANDRA specs - which technically makes a vehicle unroadworthy here in Australia. trying to avoid this scenario - will be hard enough getting a turbo 1UZ engineered alone. the idea is to race in compak attack - which is an import/late model bracket for drag racing.

for a flat 11 in a car weighing 1000kg, my guesstimate is that i'll need around 450 - 500 flywheel horsepower. i've got a set of 7M 440cc injectors, so i feel i have enough fuel at around 95% duty cycle, with around 3bar (45psi) of fuel line pressure.

a good auto always helps - with a stall set close to full boost, transbrake and all the goodies. diff ratios are easy - i wont get into that here. getting the 60ft times down i feel is the key for a fast street car.

so getting a responsive spool i guess is not as big an issue as for a circuit car, but i don't want to be sitting on the line for 10sec trying to get the thing to spool either.

the reason i used the word "useable" is because if i'm going to hit full boost after above, say, 4000rpm (ish) then it's not really a "street car" IMO - mainly because i feel i need at least 50% of the max rpm under boost.

because it's a street car i want to avoid the use of NOS.

if you guys require any more info just let me know.

cheers,
a.

 

[Pro]

have you looked at the bullseye power s510 turbo. is yours the same size as this one.

if the turbo is large enough also you could use a 100shot to spool it off the line. so no turbo is really to big.

the compressor wheel is only 80mm on this one, not 100mm like the S5100, but the housings are gigantic (even with a 70mm inlet wheel, i get a 0.6AR inlet side!) and the exhaust is 80mm as well, but with a 1.15AR exhaust - so it is a big mofo of a turbo.

i tried finding a pic on their website, but it just says "call for details".

Cheers,
A

 

[cribbj]

Aaron, here's a handy turbo calculator that let's you "see" how a certain compressor & hot section will work with your engine. Takes a little fiddling to get comfortable with initially, but you'll get the the hang of it soon enough.

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php

 

[Pro]

thanks for that

i don't understand how it works though - i set all my parameters and.....what?

is it meant to tell me what each turbo will be like on my engine by providing the map of each?

it seems the GT4202 looks about right considering the broad island falls right within the projected lb/min airflow range yes? a little lazy maybe at just under a bar of boost though.

1UZFE

 

[18crxt]

so with that gt4202 your starting to get in the range of efficiency and lag for sure.

to bad you didnt have a t80 hanging around. that would "pull a premium."

 

[cjsupra90]

Aaron, here's a handy turbo calculator that let's you "see" how a certain compressor & hot section will work with your engine. Takes a little fiddling to get comfortable with initially, but you'll get the the hang of it soon enough.

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php

John, you beat me too it... That is the exact link I was going to post... It is a very accurate and helpful turbo selection calc...

 

[cjsupra90]

Dont know what figures you used for all the inputs but based on 500hp for a 4.0L with .55 BSFC and a 1PSI IC drop, the GT4088-1 would be the best selection but thats only if your taking it to 6000rpm...

Going with the GT4202, the area that peak torque is falling into is in a lower eff. range of the turbo which is not a good thing. Remember, detonation is most likely to accure at and around peak torque, not peak horsepower so you want the the turbo to be at its highest eff when the engine is at and around peak torque..

 

[Pro]

so with that gt4202 your starting to get in the range of efficiency and lag for sure.

to bad you didnt have a t80 hanging around. that would "pull a premium."

lag - i don't mind so much.

i did think an older TA45 or a T88-34D might be whats required as well, with some clever exhaust manifold sizing.

 

[Pro]

Dont know what figures you used for all the inputs but based on 500hp for a 4.0L with .55 BSFC and a 1PSI IC drop, the GT4088-1 would be the best selection but thats only if your taking it to 6000rpm...

Going with the GT4202, the area that peak torque is falling into is in a lower eff. range of the turbo which is not a good thing. Remember, detonation is most likely to accure at and around peak torque, not peak horsepower so you want the the turbo to be at its highest eff when the engine is at and around peak torque..

6000rm isn't really getting near the useable rpm of the motor though - although if it will support the horsepower at those revs then i'm not exactly stressing the engine.

i could make the GT42 spool earlier with smaller dia manifold piping - although i put in a 0.47 BFSC

is there anything in between i wonder....i'll have a looksie.

 

[Pro]

maybe the GT4094-R? seems to be right where i want the island to be in regards to lbs/min airflow - unless i'm reading it wrong.

T66 looks to be working on the lazy side of the island as well....

can you explain to me how that GT4202 is close to the surge limit? i thought the surge limit was on the LHS of the chart, yet my airflow at 1bar seems to put 35-55 lbs/min right over the island...?

 

[cjsupra90]

6000rm isn't really getting near the useable rpm of the motor though - although if it will support the horsepower at those revs then i'm not exactly stressing the engine.

My point exactly. Granted it will take 20psi to achieve it, but I'd rather build a motor to handle more boost and spin less RPM's then run more RPM's with less boost to achieve the same power... RPM is what kills motors....

i could make the GT42 spool earlier with smaller dia manifold piping - although i put in a 0.47 BFSC

Yeah, you could but the smaller piping is going to hurt you more in top end power.. Rememer, everything is a trade off for something else. Also, I wouldn't use that low of a BSFC value. Go higher, like .55 that way if anything, it will take less boost to build the same power if the engine does end up with a lower BSFC....

maybe the GT4094-R? seems to be right where i want the island to be in regards to lbs/min airflow - unless i'm reading it wrong.

T66 looks to be working on the lazy side of the island as well....

can you explain to me how that GT4202 is close to the surge limit? i thought the surge limit was on the LHS of the chart, yet my airflow at 1bar seems to put 35-55 lbs/min right over the island...?

What exactly were all your input specs so that I can see exactly the same results that you were looking at?

 

[Pro]

What exactly were all your input specs so that I can see exactly the same results that you were looking at?

cheers for your help.

input specs are here.

1UZFE

using the 0.55 BSFC i get the GT4088 being an ideal match as well.

seems to be a few Exhaust A/Rs available - now to work out which one. I see 0.86 up to 1.34!!!

 

[cjsupra90]

I went back and played around with it somemore and I am liking the GT4094-R

How did you get it to link me to your setup?

 

[cjsupra90]

Nevermind, I just saw the link to config area of it.... Didn't notice that before...

 

[cjsupra90]

here's the one I like best.. (back to the 4088)
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...3=120&intake_temp_4=120&turbo_n=1&map_sel0=46