jibby i think with everything you mentioned plus some kelford or tighe cams you could eclipse the 300 mark, maybe 340-350hp with headers, cams (you have a high stall torque converter so you go go a little beyond mild), tuning. If n/a is how you'd like to stay then a i set of $1,000usd cams (i think kelford offered that special to our members) is the way to break that 300 mark. Or take off all the mods on your car, sell it, and buy a 98 and put your stuff back on, and you'll begin with 290hp and better low end torque and a 5 speed auto, but aftermarket cams wouldn't be an option for that setup.
Anyone close to 300hp on IUZFE motor with stock internals?
- Thread starter jibbby
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The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
Dunno about that Steve.
I've generally found manuracturers HP figures to be pretty good.
A good engine, with the specified mods, if set up correctly in my experience will usually meet or possibly even exceed HP figures.
If you rate a Cam as it only gives X horsepower, you are not taking into account any other gain. Such as a beefier midrange or low down torque.
Which all make a car faster on the road but will not give a higher peak power output.
Cheers
Trev
Many who want to mod their cars usually stick with non vvti pre 96 motors.
Why?
1) Piggy back ecu's will be harder to tune the vvti motors. The best solution so far for the is300 guys with vvti have been to rip out the stock ecu and replace with aftermarket full ecu system. Toyomoto, SRT, and Turboeast do this with their turbo kits. There hasn't been anyone I know of yet to be able to decipher the stock Toyota vvti ecu.
2) For those in NY and other states, it obd2 cars don't use the emissions sniffer anymore. Inspection hooks up their computer to the stock ecu. This makes it a little hard with aftermarket ecu tuning systems.
stevechumo
Active Member
I agreed with you guys. I don't see there's any way that a stock motor can make 300 hp, either at crank or wheels. When I say stock, it means the heads are not even touched and no turbo/supercharger. You can have bolt-on items such as cold air intake (I mean it sticks outside of the engine bay), complete exhaust system, ECU, cams...etc. Based on my experience on other cars and divided by half for 4 cylinder engines , that gain is very hard to get. Many performance part makers usually over-rate the hp gain. And many people believe in this by adding up the advertised numbers. I maybe wrong, but it seems undoable to me. However, it could be near to 300 crank hp.
The other solution is with a turbo like David's car. Easy power and doable.\
WDoherty,
I honestly don't think the cams will give you that much power. They're way over-rated. I believe 20 hp is the max number they could give with ECU tuning. If the cams are put in without ECU tuning, the cams aren't up to their max performance.
So if compare with the above mods for $$$ spent, work, and power gained, a forced induction system is always a winner.
The other solution is with a turbo like David's car. Easy power and doable.\
WDoherty,
I honestly don't think the cams will give you that much power. They're way over-rated. I believe 20 hp is the max number they could give with ECU tuning. If the cams are put in without ECU tuning, the cams aren't up to their max performance.
So if compare with the above mods for $$$ spent, work, and power gained, a forced induction system is always a winner.
stevechumo
Active Member
You can tell by the way I'm saying about cams. I don't like to swap in cams unless I'll go for real crazy horsepower. That's just my preference.Peewee said:
Peewee
New Member
Come on man, 20hp?
Thats like saying the most you'd expect from turbo charging is 50hp.
The 1uzquadcam.co.nz rally car and I have almost the exact same mods (extractors, bigger intake, manual, standalone ecu, stock bottom end, stock heads, early motor), except he has a set of very mild cams (0.350 lift instead of the factory 0.300 lift, duration unstated).
And he is pulling 90rwhp more than me, and I'm already 60rwhp up on stock.
Cams are worth A LOT more than 20hp, providing you have at least some other mods to support them.
Thats like saying the most you'd expect from turbo charging is 50hp.
The 1uzquadcam.co.nz rally car and I have almost the exact same mods (extractors, bigger intake, manual, standalone ecu, stock bottom end, stock heads, early motor), except he has a set of very mild cams (0.350 lift instead of the factory 0.300 lift, duration unstated).
And he is pulling 90rwhp more than me, and I'm already 60rwhp up on stock.
Cams are worth A LOT more than 20hp, providing you have at least some other mods to support them.
Steve, I have to agree with PeeWee on this one, I contacted the owners or head guy over at Kelford Cams via the emails, and he specifically told me after I listed my mods to him on my sc400, that the 4 cams they would send me for my car engine setup I should expect to see a 40-45hp gain with the Kelford cams installed....(without nos) These guys sell cams constantly for the 1UZFE motors.. It's mostly all high rpm horsepower gains... I would like to think they know what they are talking about but who knows???? I have not installed a set and seen for myself what a good set of cams can do for the stock 1uz...engine with exhaust and intake...
I installed a set of high performance cams only once in my life and that was on a 5.0 V8 motor. From that experience I only noticed maybe a 15-20hp gain and all top end... However there were only 2 cams on that 5.0 liter V8 motor and not 4 cams like our 1UZ....motors..
If anyone out there knows the facts on these cams from experience feel free to post away, I would sure like to know for sure what to expect because that was very likely going to be my next mod?
I installed a set of high performance cams only once in my life and that was on a 5.0 V8 motor. From that experience I only noticed maybe a 15-20hp gain and all top end... However there were only 2 cams on that 5.0 liter V8 motor and not 4 cams like our 1UZ....motors..
If anyone out there knows the facts on these cams from experience feel free to post away, I would sure like to know for sure what to expect because that was very likely going to be my next mod?
I wish the heads and VVTI system was swapable onto the older 1UZFE... Apparently it is not.. If I remember correctly the VVT-I system and heads bring out an additional 50hp out of the same engine block... 50hp is not a bad gain from what could have been a simple swap...too bad....
I am still unclear on some of these posts.... Let's put this into simple terms.. If you have a bare good running 1UZFE engine, no exhaust or an absolutely true flowing complete exhaust, bare intake, delete the a/c, delete the power steering, hydro pump, high performance pulleys, run the shorten serp belt, everything but the alternator, replace all wiring so it runs in tune and is effecient, throw a piggy back ECU on it and fine tune - with that said what would that engine most likely dyno at? I would think easily 300hp at the fly... RIGHT OR WRONG? We are talking bare stock engine with ECU that is it? What do you guys think? I would guess 315hp at the fly..... am I close?
I am still unclear on some of these posts.... Let's put this into simple terms.. If you have a bare good running 1UZFE engine, no exhaust or an absolutely true flowing complete exhaust, bare intake, delete the a/c, delete the power steering, hydro pump, high performance pulleys, run the shorten serp belt, everything but the alternator, replace all wiring so it runs in tune and is effecient, throw a piggy back ECU on it and fine tune - with that said what would that engine most likely dyno at? I would think easily 300hp at the fly... RIGHT OR WRONG? We are talking bare stock engine with ECU that is it? What do you guys think? I would guess 315hp at the fly..... am I close?
stevechumo
Active Member
Peewee,
I seriously take your point. However, that 90 hp on cams is just too good to be true to me. Again, I maybe wrong because I haven't really played with this motor. But...I've been playing on Honda 4 cylinders and I found that 10 whp is the most that I could gain with stage II for smooth idle. I actually didn't go to stage III that'll gain some more power because of idle characteristics. Some Hondas have dual cams and some have single. Well, cam manufacturers always rate as twice the gain. I even found this result on several Supra cams. The gain is the most when adjustable cam sprockets are also used with ECU tuning.
If you mentioned that 90 hp was gained, then I guess the idle should have been horrible and not acceptable for street use or smog legality. Even if the car is a little stuttered at idle, then it'll fail the smog test.
I seriously take your point. However, that 90 hp on cams is just too good to be true to me. Again, I maybe wrong because I haven't really played with this motor. But...I've been playing on Honda 4 cylinders and I found that 10 whp is the most that I could gain with stage II for smooth idle. I actually didn't go to stage III that'll gain some more power because of idle characteristics. Some Hondas have dual cams and some have single. Well, cam manufacturers always rate as twice the gain. I even found this result on several Supra cams. The gain is the most when adjustable cam sprockets are also used with ECU tuning.
If you mentioned that 90 hp was gained, then I guess the idle should have been horrible and not acceptable for street use or smog legality. Even if the car is a little stuttered at idle, then it'll fail the smog test.
90rwhp from cams I think is a tall order, cams can vary depending on your needs.. but speaking about basic mods and nothing track race worthy I think 40hp is probably a realistic gain... That is from everything I read up on cams...Like I said it is going to be my next mod most likely....
mycarhasposessedme
New Member
stevechumo said:
Dunno about that Steve.
I've generally found manuracturers HP figures to be pretty good.
A good engine, with the specified mods, if set up correctly in my experience will usually meet or possibly even exceed HP figures.
If you rate a Cam as it only gives X horsepower, you are not taking into account any other gain. Such as a beefier midrange or low down torque.
Which all make a car faster on the road but will not give a higher peak power output.
Cheers
Trev
Peewee
New Member
Steve, I can see where you are coming from and other peoples experience is always appreciated.
You can probably tell I get a bit edgy about this subject, as you are not the only person I've heard who reckons only 20hp is the limit from cams. A lot of these other people are people who have been following 'Peter Scott's' car. He only got 10-15hp out of cams, but he only got the exhaust cams done, and I'd say he only got an extremely mild regrind done on them. Unfortunately a lot of people have taken his results as gospel, and have come to the conclusion that cams do nothing.
That said, I would agree with you that if you put mild cams into the 1uz, on a stock ecu, and didn't get it retuned, that yes, you probably would only see 20-30hp increase.
However, if you get the ecu retuned to suit the cams properly, then that hp increase would dramatically rise (IMO)
I would also agree with you that any mild to serious cam would cause a lumpy idle and would not pass a smog test.
Fortunately for me, neither of these are a concern. The car I plan to get cams for is not a daily driver, and the state I'm in does not require smog tests.
I'm hoping to get some cams a little bit wilder than the 1uzquadcam.co.nz car's cams, hopefully in the next couple of months. I've been saying this for ages now, but with building a car as you can afford it things never go to plan.
I'll be sure to post some results when I get them, whether they be great or average.
You can probably tell I get a bit edgy about this subject, as you are not the only person I've heard who reckons only 20hp is the limit from cams. A lot of these other people are people who have been following 'Peter Scott's' car. He only got 10-15hp out of cams, but he only got the exhaust cams done, and I'd say he only got an extremely mild regrind done on them. Unfortunately a lot of people have taken his results as gospel, and have come to the conclusion that cams do nothing.
That said, I would agree with you that if you put mild cams into the 1uz, on a stock ecu, and didn't get it retuned, that yes, you probably would only see 20-30hp increase.
However, if you get the ecu retuned to suit the cams properly, then that hp increase would dramatically rise (IMO)
I would also agree with you that any mild to serious cam would cause a lumpy idle and would not pass a smog test.
Fortunately for me, neither of these are a concern. The car I plan to get cams for is not a daily driver, and the state I'm in does not require smog tests.
I'm hoping to get some cams a little bit wilder than the 1uzquadcam.co.nz car's cams, hopefully in the next couple of months. I've been saying this for ages now, but with building a car as you can afford it things never go to plan.
I'll be sure to post some results when I get them, whether they be great or average.
stevechumo
Active Member
Yes, please enlighten me up on this cams subject because I'm not an expert in this. It's just that I never had really good result in cams. Therefore, I dug deep into turbocharger and found faster and better results. It could be that I didn't have the correct degree of duration, lift, and degree of overlap so the power wasn't maximized. I'd also like to note that if you run the cams too hot, you might need stronger valve springs so they can prevent valve float. But I think the 1UZ valves/springs are pretty strong. I heard & read somewhere that the Supra turbo valves/springs are stronger and fit perfectly.
As I'm not mistaken, because I haven't worked on these things for awhile, the specs that I had on the Honda engines with dual cams are around: 265 degree of duration, 0.420" lift, and 30 degreess of overlap. Well, the 1UZ may have more agressive specs than the Honda.
Peewee,
If you use un-streetable cams, that'll be very interesting and scary to bystanders...Tutt..Tutt...Tutt...Tutt. Non hi-performance car geeks might think somethings is wrong with the car. :bigeyes: When you got them, please post a vid so that we can watch together.
As you guys might have known, there's also a very reputable cam manufacturer in California called "Crower". It's website is here: http://www.crower.com. They can grind any cams with your preference.
As I'm not mistaken, because I haven't worked on these things for awhile, the specs that I had on the Honda engines with dual cams are around: 265 degree of duration, 0.420" lift, and 30 degreess of overlap. Well, the 1UZ may have more agressive specs than the Honda.
Peewee,
If you use un-streetable cams, that'll be very interesting and scary to bystanders...Tutt..Tutt...Tutt...Tutt. Non hi-performance car geeks might think somethings is wrong with the car. :bigeyes: When you got them, please post a vid so that we can watch together.
As you guys might have known, there's also a very reputable cam manufacturer in California called "Crower". It's website is here: http://www.crower.com. They can grind any cams with your preference.
turboandrew
Member
If all you want is 300 HP and nice idle, streetability, then by all means, going with a 1998+ 1UZ is the best thing you can do. You can do it with an earlier motor, with a rougher than stock idle, but why? Obviously Toyota made a -LOT- of improvements in 1998. Think about it, same displacement, slightly higher compresion ratio, but an actual HP increase of probably 70 (230 to 300) all while maintaining an excellent idle. Thats quite a compliment to their new head design and their vvti system! Imagine what could be done with aftermarket vvti cams...
stevechumo, I think one of the reasons these engines respond so well is that the cams are so incredibly conservative to begine with.
stevechumo, I think one of the reasons these engines respond so well is that the cams are so incredibly conservative to begine with.
Most of us if not all of us are stuck with the pre 98 motors that are all not equiped with the VVTI system, so changing out and or swaping in the hard to find newer 98+ engine, ECU, etc.. is really not an option, simply too much work and money for 50-60hp gain.. However, if I were to accidently blow my motor and kill the block then that would be an option...I think I would try and sell my SC and buy a newer 98 SC like my pal Wdoherty said before I would try and swap the motors... 98 + motors are obviously the motors of choice....
jibbby said:
Many who want to mod their cars usually stick with non vvti pre 96 motors.
Why?
1) Piggy back ecu's will be harder to tune the vvti motors. The best solution so far for the is300 guys with vvti have been to rip out the stock ecu and replace with aftermarket full ecu system. Toyomoto, SRT, and Turboeast do this with their turbo kits. There hasn't been anyone I know of yet to be able to decipher the stock Toyota vvti ecu.
2) For those in NY and other states, it obd2 cars don't use the emissions sniffer anymore. Inspection hooks up their computer to the stock ecu. This makes it a little hard with aftermarket ecu tuning systems.
platinum0921
New Member
What makes these other motors soo powerful?
Ferrari 360 - 420 HP 3.6L V8
Lexus IS350 - 306 HP 3.5L V6
S2000- 240 HP 2.2L I4
Audi RS4 - 420 HP 4.2L V8 (FSI)
They all have better intake characteristics 7000-10000 RPM
I think 300 RWHP is possible on any 4.0 L engine.
JIBBBY just dyno'd 200rwhp at about 5500 RPM without proper tuning.
Bump that up to 9000rpm... there are cams for that and properly tuned, larger intake setup, by the numbers looks like it could hit 320rwhp. Think I may try to prove the critics wrong. I'm sure that 10lbs bottle of nos will last a lot longer on the stock setup. That would be nasty!!!
Ferrari 360 - 420 HP 3.6L V8
Lexus IS350 - 306 HP 3.5L V6
S2000- 240 HP 2.2L I4
Audi RS4 - 420 HP 4.2L V8 (FSI)
They all have better intake characteristics 7000-10000 RPM
I think 300 RWHP is possible on any 4.0 L engine.
JIBBBY just dyno'd 200rwhp at about 5500 RPM without proper tuning.
Bump that up to 9000rpm... there are cams for that and properly tuned, larger intake setup, by the numbers looks like it could hit 320rwhp. Think I may try to prove the critics wrong. I'm sure that 10lbs bottle of nos will last a lot longer on the stock setup. That would be nasty!!!
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