1UZ-FE Pros and Cons

[skid]

I think it is a great engine.



Actually, it has been that way since the beginning of time, and will never change. The bigger the pump, the more it can move. You can improve eficency of any pump. All else being equal, the larger pump will move more air.

And boost is artificial displacement.

Yes... but No!

I'm not talking about taking engineering to the finite degree, but what comes out of the showroom boxed and packaged by the marketeers for our consumption.

So just buying a big capacity V8 doesn't guarantee you anything. If BMW can get circa 350bhp AND MOST IMPORTANTLY similar torque figures from a 6 pot 3 litre (approx as can't remember) in a saloon (sedan) it is inexcusable to be getting less than that from virtually double the displacement 350 ci 5.7 litre production car from certain rather lazy to develop manufacturers. You know who I mean.

Under those terms the satatement of no replacement for displacement is a crock of ****.

Sure infinite budgets and regulations in racing terms would ensure maximum capacity engines...... but then you don't want to be stopping to refuel 10 times every hour in a race!

M

 

[JBrady]

So just buying a big capacity V8 doesn't guarantee you anything. If BMW can get circa 350bhp AND MOST IMPORTANTLY similar torque figures from a 6 pot 3 litre (approx as can't remember) in a saloon (sedan)

Actually, while the specific power of 333hp (or more in some variants) is VERY imressive for an emissions certified passenger car engine the torque is not "equal" or even close.

BMW M3 engine stats:
Liter/type/valves 3.2/inline 6/24
Displacement 3246 cu cm
Bore/stroke 3.43/3.58 inch
Nominal output/rpm 333/7900 hp
Max. torque/rpm 262/4900 lb-ft

This is an impressive 104 hp/liter.
Torque is 81.875 pound feet/liter.

For comparision the 1998 GS400 1UZFE has:
300hp/6000rpm = 75 hp/liter
310lb/ft/4000rpm = 77.5 pound feet/liter.

 

[skid]

JBRADY I respect all your posts but you've missed my point. The figures I was quoting were 'circa' and I wasn't comparing to a Lexus. Read my post again, spot the engine size I'm quoting against and make an intelligent guess!

My point is about 'displacement' can be replaced, If BMW can get similar bhp/torque figures from a 3.something engine then it is unacceptable for other manufactuers to get similar from a 5.7 litre. BMW isn't unique on 1 engine ie the 5 litre 500+bhp V10 or Hondas 1+bhp per cc engines and these are mass produced units.

Ergo the arguement of 'there is no replacement for displacement' is debunked. Also my personal feeling that just stroking a motor is 'cheating' towards gaining performance.

The 4 litre 1 UZ is an excellent starting point to expand engineering skills to increase performance without the need of stroking. And the point of the thread is about this engine and I think it's a more 'intelligent' (ie you learn more and expand your knowledge rather than just browse yet another chevy tuning parts catalogue :yawn

Mark

 

[jibbby]

For example it does make me wonder the thinking of some people here (I'm not being insulting - I'm instigating a genuine query) who bang on about qtr mile times yet drive a 2 ton saloon/sedan. Come on if you're serious put the motor in another car, or just strip out your show pony of all the bling and sounds and do it properly.

Skid my friend - Some of us like to keep our cars as a daily driver and or street legal. A car that is built on a budget, luxurious, and fast, etc....So to have that you must try to modify the 2 ton saloon/sedan as best as you can and live with it... You can still get the 2 ton sedans moving with their !uz-fe engines some what fast in the quarter mile with some money, knowledge, time and determination.....That is challenging, fun and that is why we do what we do....right?

If you dedicate your car to drag racing only, then that is whole different car entirely..That car should time much faster, but that car offers nothing other then track driving...That car offers no street driving, No confort, no A/C, and collects dust sitting in your garage..etc...I for example want to be able to drive my car some what as a daily driver and burn up the track too....Some weight reduction without too much sacrifice...

I think dyno's are overrated and irritating to me, and track times really show what the car can actually do... Engine horsepower is useless if the car is not geared correctly, setup for traction, or like you say weighs 2 tons or more......Track times do not lie.....

Some people want to see track times while others just want to see dyno results..I get that all the time in posts.. I for one love to be able to line up at a red light next to a fancy sports car and see if my old lemon with the 1UZ-FE engine in it can win........That is what floats my boat....Only if I win.... and not get a ticket or create an unsafe situation...Love to suprise those rich folks in their fancy expensive sports cars that think they are unbeatable..... That is the best.....

Running a fast quarter mile time and posting up the results and getting perks isn't so bad either come to think of it...

No offense intended either..:slaphappy

 

[Spinall4]

Compairing the early 1UZ to todays V6's and V8's is an unfair compairson. The early 1UZ cam out in 89 in the states and back in 89 there weren't any 6's making even close to 250hp and 260tq in stock form with the exception of maybe the 4.3L chevy V6 in tq rating and the 8'd of that time were at about the same power rating yet didn't get near the gas milage of the 1UZ.

Look at lets say a 98 C5 vette with an LS1, the LS1 made 345hp and a 98 sc400 made 300hp IIRC, yet the SC is 4.0L and th LS1 is 5.7L. Which that works out to 75hp per liter for the SC and only 60.5hp per liter for the LS1.

Yes it is costly to build compaired to other 8's, but then again it is not nearly as popular as those and popularity dictates price.

The 4.3l V6 from gmc was making 280hp & 360 ft/lbs of torque (rated, actual ouput closer to 300 hp/400 ft/lbs tq) in 91 in the GMC Syclone. It was turbo though. Sad to say, but GM was on top of the turbo/import game with the GN, T-type, TTA, Sy/Ty, & Turbo Sunbird, but let them all drop off. They Also had the LT-5 in the ZR-1 making 385-405 HP in a 4 cam all alum 5.7l block. I find it shitty that the lt-5 had only 1.7l more displacement, but 155 more horses.

 

[jibbby]

The 1uz-fe have ability to deliver good torque for what it is......Forgot that one which makes it a decent swap motor for 4x4's and street applications...

 

[LondonBenji]

I'm going to have to go with Skid on this one and I think thats basically the UK perspective.

Not wanting to sound rude but Americans have an obsession with displacement and basically just put all their belief in that well, bigger is better?

I mean I currently drive a 1litre car (50-60ci?), that is probably almost as fast (in terms of acceleration) than a lot of American cars with bigger engines.... how many 1litre engines do you even get over there? I drive around town, I just about average 20mph, do you really need a bigger engine? I get around 45-50mpg if I sensible and even on the motorway it isn't a bad car, you just have a to work it a little harder if you want to sit around the 85-95mph mark, at 70mph it seems quite easy and relaxed.

I think the appealing notion of the 1UZ is that (and I hate to say it) it can almost be considered disposible because they are so cheap, like Jibbby said, tune one, break it, buy another, tune it again, break it....and so on. How many times would you like to do that with an LS1 before your wallet feels it.

But I don't think the displacement chase is an entirely lost game, when talking NA, I guess it still holds true but when talking FI, well, I don't think it is crucial, it almost seems that the design strength and efficiency of the engine itself is more important and this is where I think American engines fall down, stock efficiency.

But lets not forget, engines like the Civic Type-R/S2000's engine and EVO's are reasonably highly strung so you can't forget that in some form or another you will pay for that efficiency. Yes the Ferrari F430 is much more efficient with the capacity but what are the service intervals and how much do they cost compared to say a Camaro with a 5.7litre block in it?

The 1UZ seems to be able to cater to both sides of the pond however if you really want more displacement this doesn't like it is difficult to do with the 2UZ and 3UZ hanging around for kicks as well. What is the highest sensible capacity you could shoot for with a combination of bits, the 2UZ is 4.7litre isn't it? So how much further can you go and how?

What I would like to know however, is once you are replaceing most of the bits (ECU, injectors, intake, exhaust, cams, rods, pistons) what is left of the 1UZ that makes it any better to say an LS1 with the same bits replaced?

I mean, the stock crank is supposed to be bastard hard but what if you end up replacing that as well?

Shooting for MASSIVE power, I mean 800-1600bhp, in which I am probably going to replace most of the bits anyway, why should I choose a 1UZ over everything else? What other options are there and what are the cost comparisons?

Just curious is all

 

[jibbby]

LondonBenji - I see what you are saying...However gotta disagree with you mate...I think Americans are more obsessed with bigger engines because they are more readily available to us here...We drive a BBC or big V10 Dodge or Ford and you feel the torque immediately...Then you say to yourself man that feels awesome, I want one... Where as you UK boys are more familiar with the 4 and 6 bangers (boosted for performance)...That's the difference in my humble opinion...

Also an LS1 engine is more likely to handle big power and hold up longer then let's say a smaller engine that is pushing it's limits thru boost...

A torqued out big motor is just as fun to me if not more then a smaller turbo'd motor that is built to the hilt.. I love instant torque and it has nothing to do with me being American either... Big N/A power rocks!!:headbang:

London, One of my best friends lives in Manchester, England and when he visits me over here in the States he gets such a thrill and rush when driving my V8 cars of present and past... Just an example for you...

 

[LondonBenji]

LondonBenji - I see what you are saying...However gotta disagree with you mate...I think Americans are more obsessed with bigger engines because they are more readily available to us here...We drive a BBC or big V10 Dodge or Ford and you feel the torque immediately...Then you say to yourself man that feels awesome, I want one... Where as you UK boys are more familiar with the 4 and 6 bangers (boosted for performance)...That's the difference in my humble opinion...

Also an LS1 engine is more likely to handle big power and hold up longer then let's say a smaller engine that is pushing it's limits thru boost...

A torqued out big motor is just as fun to me if not more then a smaller turbo'd motor that is built to the hilt.. I love instant torque and it has nothing to do with me being American either... Big N/A power rocks!!:headbang:

London, One of my best friends lives in Manchester, England and when he visits me over here in the States he gets such a thrill and rush when driving my V8 cars of present and past... Just an example for you...

I want to disagree but you are exactly right and in a way I guess I was saying the same thing, nice one!

I think the only thing that needs to be pointed out is that we tend to build cars that are a damn sight lighter so if I am correct in saying we don't need as much torque to get things moving.

I've been in an Impreza WRX (2litre turbo), an S2000 (2litre NA) and a 300ZX (3litre? Twin Turbo). So a reasonable spread of weight and power and for example the S2000 with 'only' a 2litre 4pot engine with around 240bhp was absolutely breath taking, I just couldn't believe how hard it would pull.

The 300 you could tell was heavy but it did have a lovely surge of torque and I believe they are 'only' 3litre V6's.

 

[jibbby]

London, don't get me wrong it's alot of fun to drive a light weight boosted car too...They fly and handle great... I owned and drove a few of those 300zx twin turbo's years back..Those cars were fun to drive in the canyons until those turbo's overheated and you lose the boost in one or both of the TT's...

However, Personally speaking, I would say it is tough to beat the reliability, power and torque of a true V8 motor....Also, you ever listen to a boosted LS1 as it bolts down the track? It's pretty sweet compared to a 4 banger turbo.......

Just Look at the award winning sound of the Ferarri's, last time I checked those are V8 motors too... 4.3L motors that deliver 500hp N/A...

Also, I would venture to guess an LS1 N/A motor delivering 400whp would actually provide better fuel economy over a 4 and 6 banger motor that is boosted and makes 400whp....

All that is really not that important though, in the end it's what you like, what you can afford, what is available to you, and what the car can do when finished...4, 6, 8, 10 or even 12 cylinder motors it's all good...:fing02:

 

[striker]

Pro: Best Production V8 I've seen till now

Con: heads, they don't flow enough for the way we intend to use them.

look at a hayabusa or R1 engine nowaday's, and if it's torque you're after the latest fjr1300 engine from yamaha has very much of that all over the rpm band.

what's with having Big displacement and not having adaquate headflow to support it?

ps renault v8's F1 engines are dynoed at 19002rpm.

grtz Thomas

ps Hey skid how are you doing?

 

[LondonBenji]

London, don't get me wrong it's alot of fun to drive a light weight boosted car too...They fly and handle great... I owned and drove a few of those 300zx twin turbo's years back..Those cars were fun to drive in the canyons until those turbo's overheated and you lose the boost in one or both of the TT's...

However, Personally speaking, I would say it is tough to beat the reliability, power and torque of a true V8 motor....Also, you ever listen to a boosted LS1 as it bolts down the track? It's pretty sweet compared to a 4 banger turbo.......

Just Look at the award winning sound of the Ferarri's, last time I checked those are V8 motors too... 4.3L motors that deliver 500hp N/A...

Also, I would venture to guess an LS1 N/A motor delivering 400whp would actually provide better fuel economy over a 4 and 6 banger motor that is boosted and makes 400whp....

All that is really not that important though, in the end it's what you like, what you can afford, what is available to you, and what the car can do when finished...4, 6, 8, 10 or even 12 cylinder motors it's all good...:fing02:

Amen to that! :smoker:

 

[Nick M]

And it still stands, all else being equal, the larger pump will do more work. You want to compare a smaller engine to a larger engine, fine I agree. But show two of the same kind.

How about the Murcielago. It is the same size as a "domestic" but built similar to the claimed BMW. What happens? Far more hp and torque from the bigger engine.

 

[jibbby]

If you guys are looking for big power from a flick of the switch then I would say you need to "GET NOS"........ I get normal 1uz-fe gas mileage then I flick the a switch and the rears break loose instantly...It feels like the engine literally doubles in power with a 150hp shot...Gas mileage is the same...Also 15LB nos bottles last for months and are about $70usd each to re-fill...

You can install a good Nitrous system for well under a $1000 too...It's cheap and very effective...

 

[cjsupra90]

The 4.3l V6 from gmc was making 280hp & 360 ft/lbs of torque (rated, actual ouput closer to 300 hp/400 ft/lbs tq) in 91 in the GMC Syclone. It was turbo though. Sad to say, but GM was on top of the turbo/import game with the GN, T-type, TTA, Sy/Ty, & Turbo Sunbird, but let them all drop off. They Also had the LT-5 in the ZR-1 making 385-405 HP in a 4 cam all alum 5.7l block. I find it shitty that the lt-5 had only 1.7l more displacement, but 155 more horses.

Still unfair comparisons. You cant campair the Typhone/Syclone or GN engines cause they are FI (turbo). As for the LT5, it was a specialty motor that was only produced for 3yrs. The 90-92 model made 375hp and the 93 model made 405. The 90-92 model = 65.8hp/Liter and the 93 model = 70hp/liter as compaired to the same era UZ which = 62.5hp/liter. The thing to remember here is that the UZ before 98 and VVTi was designed as an economy engine where as the LT5 along with the LS1 is a performance engine and yet they are relitivily close in hp/liter even though they are totally differant in thier designed operating principals (economy vs performance).

 

[cjsupra90]

If you guys are looking for big power from a flick of the switch then I would say you need to "GET NOS"........ I get normal 1uz-fe gas mileage then I flick the a switch and the rears break loose instantly...It feels like the engine literally doubles in power with a 150hp shot...Gas mileage is the same...Also 15LB nos bottles last for months and are about $70usd each to re-fill...

You can install a good Nitrous system for well under a $1000 too...It's cheap and very effective...

Only babies are bottle feed! :wink:

 

[cjsupra90]

Once its all said and done, there is no replacement for displacment if all else is EQUAL.

As Nick M said, a larger pump will always do more work. The only thing to add is this is true only if every component that makes the pumping system is matched for that work.

 

[Zuffen]

On the cost of getting power discussion I don't think our engines are all that expensive.

Rods were alittle more than what you can get for an SBC but if you talk quality rods no they aren't all that expensive.

The Ross pistons were in the market on price.

My supercharger set up was no more expensive than a 6/71 or similar and will work better.

Headers are about the same.

Cams cost more, but there are 4 of them.

Gasket were quite similar to SBC items.

An ECU will cost the same form an SBC as our engines.

If you want 600+hp be prepared to spend $20,000+ (Australian) to do it whether it's an SBC or 1UZ.

That is unless your Justen who clearly is above 600 and running an unopened engine. Could an SBC do that?

I'll stick with the UZ.

When I need an anchor for my boat I'l buy an SBC.

 

[cjsupra90]

On the cost of getting power discussion I don't think our engines are all that expensive.

Rods were alittle more than what you can get for an SBC but if you talk quality rods no they aren't all that expensive.

The Ross pistons were in the market on price.

My supercharger set up was no more expensive than a 6/71 or similar and will work better.

Headers are about the same.

Cams cost more, but there are 4 of them.

Gasket were quite similar to SBC items.

An ECU will cost the same form an SBC as our engines.

If you want 600+hp be prepared to spend $20,000+ (Australian) to do it whether it's an SBC or 1UZ.

That is unless your Justen who clearly is above 600 and running an unopened engine. Could an SBC do that?

I'll stick with the UZ.

When I need an anchor for my boat I'l buy an SBC.

I have to agree with you on all that, Rod. About the only thing(s) that come to mind that there is a substantial differance for a high performance build is ARP main and head studs.

 

[jibbby]

Small block Chevy - average size 5.7 liters

1uz-fe Lexus/Toyota - 4.0 liters - 4.3 liters


You guys left out that tiny bit of information when comparing the two motors...If only the 1uz-fe's were bigger then it would be a different story....

A supercharged 1uz-fe or turbo charged 1uz-fe motor with only stock internals will run you atleast $6000-$7000 installed for a good setup..That will give you no more then 400whp with only the stock internals...

A SBC (LS1) will cost you less or about the same for equal N/A power (400whp)...

The only difference now is that if you decide to boost the LS1 up a couple more hundred horsepower the stock internals can handle it...

1uz-fe 400-450whp and end of story, unless you go forgies, etc....Then it starts getting costly....

On the other hand which motor will hold up longer a boosted 1uz-fe motor dishing out (400whp) or a SBC N/A dishing out (400whp)???? Maybe the SBC N/A LS1, only because the 1uz-fe is being pushed to it's limits...

A few other things to consider...It really depends on the desired HP's goals of the engine builder...