Header problem cost more $ - Who should wear it?

[-Nemesis-]

Some may have seen my headers thread in the Exhaust section, I thought I would start this here to get peoples opinions: Warning rant starting

Last year I purchased some stainless steel extractors for my 1UZ, since then I have pulled them off 4 times myself after fitting to chase air leaks. In hindsight I should have checked first, but this last occasion I was at my wits end with these farting headers. After some reading I pulled them out (not easy in my 4Runner) and checked the header->head flange. The result: Both were insanely warped.

So yesterday I took them to a reputable engine machine shop to get machined. Note* I need my car, it is my daily, I can't afford to wait while they are sent back OS to the manufacturer.

These things were so warped it took over two hours on the machine. Both of them had massive dive offs at each end. The worst side was bad enough that the shop had to machine 1/4" off the whole flange to get it remotely square! Looking side on you can easily spot how much thinner the middle of each flange is now.

So, two hours labour and $154 later I have nice flush header flanges ready to be refitted for the 4th inconvenient time.

The purchase story goes: I bought them off an Aussie company (won't be named yet as i'm sure he'll be helpfull) who imports them from somewhere in the US. They are made and designed to suit the 1UZ engine.

The question is: Who should wear the cost, which equates to over 25% of the purchase price? Me? The person who imported them and onsold for a profit? Or the manufacturer who supplied the shythouse product to begine with (not sure who, I think the box said X-Power or something of the sorts)?

 

[-Nemesis-]

Also, one of the removals ended up costing another $60 to get a S-S welder to patch up about a half inch gap on a primary where there was no weld at all (inside, hard to get to). I don't have a receipt for that one though.

 

[Pro]

liability lies with the defective product ONLY - not the labour side of things.

so the machining and welding, while labour, is actually a repair, therefore is claimable.

labour to remove and refit header? sorry buddy, it's like postage. can't claim it.

 

[-Nemesis-]

Yeah I have no claim on labour for fitment as it was entirely I who did it every time.

Was more trying to work out if I should demand $ from the importer, or ask him for the people who made them. Then again, I guess either way he should sort it out.

At the end of the day i'm excited to know there's now a good chance my engine wont sound like an old clapped out 253 going tftftftftftftf everywhere

 

[jibbby]

I think if the headers were defective and warped you should have returned them in the bad state that they were in and got a brand new replacement set from the manufacture...

Once you try to repair the defective headers yourself I don't think you can claim anything.... I would still give it a try anyway... Talk to the business owner and tell him or her your story, tell them your broke and this is killing you and your daily ride.. Some business owners have a heart and may just show you some love....

 

[XR8tt]

I make turbo headers for mates etc...
What often causes warping ?
Is when the flange expands and the outer studs or flange bolts on heads tighten up as length wise it cannot expand any more!!!
Solution ???
Drill the OUTER holes [ and all the bottom] on flange plate to say 12mm or atleast 2/ 3mm [ 1/8 ] gap with thick washer under nut / bolt.. Leaving the two top centre bolts / studs to hold headers in place..
Use copper silicone to seal both sides of gasket...


If you can ? & have the time..
Tighten finger tight and leave for an hour or so ..
Then tighted up ...
Prevents squessing silicon out..

 

[-Nemesis-]

If you can ? & have the time..
Tighten finger tight and leave for an hour or so ..
Then tighted up ...
Prevents squessing silicon out..

That's a good tip thanks, will try that one. My MLS gaskets are so gritty and shyt I don't think i'll bother re-using them. Just use the copper silicone perhaps...

 

[Chesso]

Nemesis, just curious, I think i have the same modified headers on a 2nd gen 4runner. Did you use the original 1UZ exhaust gaskets or the fibrous gaskets included with the headers?

Also I assume you did up the header bolts starting from the inner most bolts spiralling out? Mine seemed to pull up OK when I did this.

I have only open headers at the moment (gotta love that sound!) so I cant hear if I have any exhaust flange leaks . I re-used the original multi layer gaskets.

Chesso

 

[sideshow]

you live and learn these days

90% of car stuff is made in china and there is no such thing as good quality that your evry day joe blow can afford

i got quoted to have extractors made for my 1uz hilux for around 1000 to 1100 i guess that sort of prob would not happen for that price u hope

but these days i have learnt to do most fo the stuff yourself

its cheaper but takes longer

ive been lucky wth my hilux

in 3 years only thing that has fai;ded is power steering line and water pump

 

[-Nemesis-]

Nemesis, just curious, I think i have the same modified headers on a 2nd gen 4runner. Did you use the original 1UZ exhaust gaskets or the fibrous gaskets included with the headers?

Also I assume you did up the header bolts starting from the inner most bolts spiralling out? Mine seemed to pull up OK when I did this.

I have only open headers at the moment (gotta love that sound!) so I cant hear if I have any exhaust flange leaks . I re-used the original multi layer gaskets.

Chesso

Hi mate, I tried everything. At first I used the fibrous gaskets and thought they were the problem. Then I pulled them off and used the MLS gaskets. Still leaking, so I pulled them off then found the missing weld, assuming that was the problem I got them fixed, then refitted with MLS and silicone. Noise came back again, which led to the above.

In hindsight I wish I had of thought to check the flanges first. Having said that, I haven't had time to re-fit them yet (wifes been in hospital) so I don't even know for sure the farting has gone....

 

[-Nemesis-]

To save the stress and arguements I suggested a compromise which he agreed to. I asked if he could get me some new or good genuine MLS gaskets so I don't have to buy any, they're coming express post. Fingers crossed I can finally be done with this exhaust leak chasing!

 

[XR8tt]

What can also help prevent warping ???
Notice how much material is between each port on flange...
I would get a thin cutting disc in angle grinder and cut from each side leaving 1/2 inch in centre, or cut straight through... The 1/8 or so cut will be enough to allow movement without warping...
Compare that flange to the std flange...
They are seperate...

 

[Zuffen]

XR,

Great advice on partially cutting the spare metal.

I'll be doing the same on my new headers when they're built.

 

[-Nemesis-]

If it's adviseable then i'll cut the flanges before re-fitting. Still waiting on gaskets.

 

[XR8tt]

The std ones don't have issues.. Yea being 4WD shouldn't make any difference.. What we did on Rallycross cars years back was fit a bracket from either belhousing bolt or further back? But part of engine gearbox. This brackets supports any movement or damage from hits, bumps, harmonics etc is stoped at this point.. Taking any issues away from front ...Keep in mind 4 pipes should be stronger than 1....
On a V8 a bracket can go from each exhaust and tied up in centre on transmission..

 

[-Nemesis-]

Hehe thanks, I deleted my statement after as I thought it sounded silly in hindsight. I know the standard ones don't have an issue, but they're a single cast piece of steel that is practically one pipe anyways.

The bracket idea is a good one.

Note* for people thinking wtf, I had asked about the movement of the primaries if they're not supporting each other with a single flange.