Fidanza Flywheel & Clutch for Landcruiser V8

[cribbj]

Anyone else notice that two months ago Fidanza quietly announced a flywheel & twin disc clutch setup for the 2UZ in the LandCruiser?

Still have to provide your own ring gear, but at least this is a step in the right direction and very welcome news for the UZ family.

http://www.fidanza.com/newsarticle.aspx?id=121

 

[motoracer47]

So the 2uz and 1uz share the same flywheel bolt pattern?

http://thmotorsports.com/fidanza/fidanza_flywheel_aluminum/130081/i-264813.aspx?googlebase=130081-03

Is this the answer to my prayers? btw...gonna send that book this week.

 

[cribbj]

Good question; AFAIK the flex plates are identical for all UZ engines, but David is the one who could answer that best. He's played with all engines in the family.

 

[Lextreme II]

Good question; AFAIK the flex plates are identical for all UZ engines, but David is the one who could answer that best. He's played with all engines in the family.

Yes they are the same...

 

[cribbj]

Brad, if I were you, I'd give Fidanza themselves a ring about this flywheel before you send anyone any money. The ad on their website states that owners must provide their own ring gears, while the ad on that dealer's website implies that the ring gear is provided. Additionally, you'll want to know for which clutches is the flywheel drilled?

 

[motoracer47]

John..

For sure, I planned on checking with Fidanza and the online dealer before I do anything. It would be nice if it works, I've got a friend that has one of their flywheels on his supra and is quite happy with it, but if not, then I'll probably end up going with the Dellows unit: solid reputation, they have been making the flywheels for awhile, and at the current exchange rate its about $408 shipped, which isnt that big of a difference. Only issue with theirs is that its setup for a 10" pressure plate, which I have not found yet in the US, but they have advised to check gm v6 cars.

I normally do a bunch of research before I buy anything...but then again, I did just buy a cheap tremec T56, without knowing for sure that im going to get an adapter for it, but the deal was too good to pass up

 

[motoracer47]

the distributor didnt know too much about it, but im waiting on a response from Fidanza themselves. I asked about the ring gear and what pressure plate it is drilled for. Once I find out, ill post the info here.

 

[motoracer47]

Here is what Fidanza responded with:

Hey Brad,

Thanks for contacting Fidanza. This flywheel will already have a ring gear installed on it. The clutch pattern should be the same as a factory clutch. The clutch bolt circle diameter is 345 mm (13.5826").

needless to say, I dont think that this particular flywheel is the same that John mentioned above. However, I also checked their product listing spreadsheet, and they did show the flywheel I linked to as available for the Landcruiser with V8 engine. (part# 130081). Hmm...anyone know what else runs a pressure plate that size?

 

[cribbj]

Well, it sounds like the good news is that Fidanza are making a UZ flywheel with ring gear. Now all we have to do is ensure the ID of the friction surface is suitable, and get them to drill it for some popular clutches.

I would guess another hitorq, low RPM and low HP truck might have a 13 5/8" clutch. I can't imagine anything else using that size. Maybe a Chevy or Ford diesel in the F250 or F350 class?

 

[motoracer47]

Ive been going back and forth a bit with Brad from Fidnaza, im going to shoot him an email Monday with my full sales pitch. I'm going to do my best to convince him that Fidanza should build a flywheel to suit the UZ series engines, and drilled for a supra turbo clutch.

I'm still surprised about the difficulty in finding an affordable flywheel that is setup for a readily available clutch, when there are 3 different forums dedicated to swapping this motor...im going to try my best to convince Fidanza to modify their 2UZ-fe flywheel for the landcrusier to suit a supra turbo clutch setup, which again, not trying to sound like a prick, but probably what they should have done in the first place. The market for the stock landcruiser with a manual tranny has to be really, really small, im going to guess they were only sold in Africa and maybe Austrailia? I would think that a flywheel drilled to suit the uz series, and setup for a supra turbo clutch, would meet 98% of most of our requirements. Sure there are some racers/high hp peeps that would need a twin plate, but I dont see that being the mass seller. And honestly, if your at that level to NEED a twin-plate, you have alot of money and could probably easily afford a custom setup that uses a Tilton mult-plate 7.25" setup. I'm kinda surprised that they spent the time and money to develop that twin plate setup, and for that matter, the stock setup(part# 130081). Id be willing to bet my own fire safety business of going on 9 years that a setup for the supra or even 3sgte pressure plate would far outsell those other 2 combined. (which, btw, this isn't me as an enthusiast saying they should make what I want, this is me the business man of 9 years saying: its more profitable to make a general purpose, 1 design fits all applications flywheel, rather than 2 different, highly specialized, but for very limited markets)

needless to say...this is not how I'm going to pitch it to Fidanza!! lol...I'll be a bit more PC than this. I doubt it goes anywhere, because the first thing I'm going to tell them is that I have no interest in a group buy to make it happen, nor should there have to be a group buy. I doubt they made part# 130081 for a group buy, I doubt they started their business from a group buy....this is kinda like the movie "Field of Dreams" if you build it, they WILL come.

I will buy it, so will you, you know it! (you being anyone who reads this that would want a affordable flywheel that can use a pressure plate/clutch
thats readily available all over the world)

Anyway, I'm working on the sales pitch, and going to email it Monday. Is there any reason that I should not use the Supra Turbo Pressure Plate as my reference? I chose that as: it was sold all over the world, should be easily available for USA, Australian, Japan, China, and Euro markets. It can be made to handle stock to lots of power, and because of the supras mass production and mass popularity, the pressure plates and clutchs are fairly cheap.

thoughts? should I do it? Would you buy it? Am I full of it?

 

[motoracer47]

hmm, I cannot seem to edit my post:

btw, I'm referring to the 7M-GTE Supra in the above post.

 

[cribbj]

I'd like to see it drilled for several clutches, both the MKIII (7M) and the MKIV (2JZ) turbo Supra models as examples.

Fidanza already offer plenty of other accessories for these models, including the full range of clutches, timing gears, short shifters, etc. so it should be a no brainer for them. All that is being asked is to pre-drill an existing flywheel that they make, for some additional clutches, which they already make as well.

 

[motoracer47]

All that is being asked is to pre-drill an existing flywheel that they make, for some additional clutches, which they already make as well.

Exactly!! this seems like a no-brainer to me, but I dont run their business.

Good point, I will include 2jz in that. In fact, if we could have it drilled for:

3sgte
7mgte
2jzgte

that would probably cover 99% of what is used, and all those clutches are widely available, and they make them as well.

 

[motoracer47]

well, my pitch to Fidanza is sent..we'll see what happens. I doubt they do anything with it, but hey, you never know

 

[Smitherz]

It's a no brainer for a company to make these parts. It's the hottest topic there is in these forums. They just need someone at their company to get off their butt and do the work is all. It's not HARD but it takes some initiative and not many people working at these places feel compelled to do anything of follow this through. When it comes down to the dollars it's just hard for them to justify making these parts when there are tons of Jeep owners out there shelling out big $ for simple products they already make.

 

[motoracer47]

Ok..Ive been working with Brad @ Fidanza, and while there are no promises, we may actually get this made. He is at the point of having some designs in CAD...Im about to ship them my flexplate for possible mock-ups.

So I need to ask a few of you guys that are experts with these motors a few questions..

1. I told him that the ring gear diameter and placement is exactly the same for the 2UZ as it is for the 1UZ...is this true? Im pretty sure it is..but..just want to be sure.

2. Are the step heights the same? (have no idea what this means)

3. If we had to pick one, and one only clutch/pressure plate setup, which would it be?
(ie: 3sgte setup..7mgte setup..2jzgte setup..11" gm style setup 10.5 inch setup)
What we really really need to think about here is this:...which size pressure plate would give us the most different applications? From my research, both the 3sgte and 7mgte setups use a 21 spline input shaft, which means we need a clutch plate that supports 21 splines. Most T5 and T56 setups use either a 26 or 10 spline input. And unless I got bad info, the 2jzgte uses 14 splines...so the real question is: What pressure plate diameter has friction discs made for it that have: 10,14,21,and 26 spline friction disks? If we could find this magical pressure plate size, this special flywheel drilled for one pressure plate could handle all these different applications.

We are exploring 2 different ways of doing this, one involving a flywheel with the ring gear already machined in, and another that will bolt in front of the stock flex plate.

In the end, this is my goal: to come up with something that would allow the most applications of transmissions, while making this as easy as possible for Fidanza....the easier it is for them to produce, the higher the chance we have of this getting made, and getting made at a good price...(possibly $350ish shipped in the USA from their regular distributors) This would not be a custom flywheel...this would be something that would be available from all their worldwide distributors...that is what I'm shooting for.

 

[cribbj]

Brad, first thanks for all the legwork you're doing on this. It's a great service for the community.

Second, here is some feedback on your points:

1. Think 2UZ and 1UZ are the same, but this is better answered by David, or someone else who has both engines and can measure.

2. Step heights - he's speaking of how the flywheel fits, and centers onto the crank flange. It's similar to the way Toyota's wheels fit and center onto the hubs (hubcentric). Both the wheel hub, and the crank have a flange with a step on it, and in both cases, the wheels or flywheels "register" or center themselves on this step. I'll email you a couple diagrams that will give him everything he needs to know about this crank flange and spigot.

3. I think you've covered all the popular possibilities, however I don't know that you'll find much commonality. However if you can reduce the spread to the clutch sizes that are common to either the MKIII or MKIV Supras, in turbo trim, and go with those, you should have 90% of the applications covered (R154 & V160) and you'll be down to only two sizes. In the MKIII case, it's a 243mm cover diameter with 240mm OD x 160mm ID disc, and the MKIV is a 253mm cover with 250mm OD x 150mm ID disc.

The guys doing Tremecs will be knowledgeable enough to redrill the flywheel themselves for whatever clutch they want to use. It's the rest of us dummies that need a "packaged" solution.

4. There is already another flywheel/clutch manufacturer (QuarterMaster) doing a button flywheel that uses the existing UZ flex plate, and they already have a line of clutches for it. IMO, there is no advantage for Fidanza to do a "me too!". Nor should they try to build a flywheel without ring gear, and leave it up to the end user to shrink or weld his own ring gear on. This is something that any good machine shop is capable of doing also. Their/our best chance of success with this will be for a proper flywheel that has the ring gear already integrated with it.

Now, here's my personal opinion FWIW:

Another approach to #3 would be to tailor the package to the two primary applications: Street or Race.

Street guys really need a large OD, single plate organic clutch, with a flywheel that has enough mass to help get the car launched, but is not so massive that it takes forever for the engine to rev. Street guys need smooth engagement, slippability, and not "too" heavy a pedal. The only practical way to accomplish this is with a large OD, small ID organic disc with lots of surface area, and perhaps a slightly heavier pressure plate.

Race guys need a smaller OD, multiplate clutch with semi-metallic linings, and a lightweight flywheel. They don't care that launching the car with this clutch will either 1) stall the car sometimes or 2) give them whiplash. That's not what it's about for them. It's about freeing up the MOI of the system, while still holding the torque required.

So Fidanza could offer the flywheel in two weights (which they already do) and for two sets of pressure plates, ie a big OD, small ID street clutch, or a small OD (like 7.25" or 8.50") race clutch.

 

[ibby]

how does the 3UZFE fit in with all this

 

[motoracer47]

John..

Thanks, if this really does happen, the real thanks will go to Brad@Fidanza, he could have just blown this off, but decided to take a look at it, and really start to get into it.

That makes sense on the step heights...ill send him the info you send me.

Yea, I knew the diameters between the toyota cluches and temec setups were not gonna be close..the tremecs are 280mm (266mm for mustang)

Unfortunately..I'm one of those tremec guys (t56) but I dont have the skill! ...in the end, that doesnt matter, if we can get this made, Ill figure out something else for my personal setup, either see if someone can make a custom friction disk that uses whatever size they(we) go with (maybe 2500mm 2jz) but has a 26 spline, 1 1/8" input that would accept the t56..who knows..but ill work around whatever we come up with here.

It sounds like that if we need to look at one choice..then I guess the 2jz would be it, as it has the larger diameter. The tremec setups are even larger in diameter, however the spline count would not match. Now, if I could find clutch disks that were 11", but had the 21 spline input, could that work? IE, we drill it for the tremec pressure plates, then guys that are using W5* and R154 buy the disk with 21 spline input? Or the other way around would work to, but the 11" would be the largest diameter of all the options.

As far as for the racing guys, fidanza has that twin plate setup, and the quartermaster unit as you mentioned(didnt even know about that one) so that would probably cover them.

It looks like that if this does happen, its just going to be one part, setup for one clutch/pressure plate. Being there are already racing units out there, and racers have a bit more cash/connections to get these things done, I would think we go with the larger diameter, single disc, street setup as our goal?

I might post a thread at v-eight.com and uzswap.com, just to see what they think also...in the end, I may not even be able to use this because of my tranny choice, so my personal choice doesn't matter. I just want to come up with something that will have the broadest range of applications, which would justify Fidanza making it, and keeping it as a regularly stocked option.

On a side note: I was/am still looking at the Dellows unit, the problem I had with theirs is that its setup for a 10" clutch, that GM never used in the US. However, Ive found that Ford used a 10" clutch on the Bronco 2, so im going to see if I can find a cheap, used 10" Bronco 2 clutch and pressure plate, mail it to Dellows, and they will see if it will work. If so, then we have also found a clutch setup for the Dellows with a non-Australia clutch..that should make it a bit easier for USA guys as well.

(btw..to all the Australian members...I never had a problem with buying from Dellows, or sending my money to Australia to any vendor, and the shipping isn't that bad. My only issue is finding replacement parts (disks, pressure plates) I didn't want to get stuck with having to order from overseas for something like a replacement disk, that I could end up needing one at the track or something. Hope that makes sense..I don't want it to seem like I don't want to spend money in OZ...not the case at all.

ohh, and there's more!...(yea, I cant shutup sometimes)
yup..this would work for the 3UZ as well... my main concern with the 2UZ is that is is a different block, and while ive read that dimensionally they are the same...I wasnt sure. The 3UZ also technically has a different block than 1UZ, but they are for sure dimensionally the same. (in the areas that concern the flywheel that is)
In the end..im pretty sure that this would work for the entire UZ series range...and there is a possibility that toyotas new V8s run the same flywheel mounting flange diameter, and ring gear diameter..if so, then these would work for the new engines as well.

 

[motoracer47]

looks like I was wrong on the Bronco 2..while the google search for 10" clutches I did showed results for it, if you get on ebay, all the clutches available for 2.3 up to 2.9l broncos are 8 7/8"...the search continues..