Crown auto into 2wd Lux - stand alone

[ALI1UZLUX]

I have a Celsior motor fitted in a 2wd Hilux running Microtech LT10S ecu. I fitted a crown auto thinking that I would be able to wire up the seperate ECT that come with these boxes to run it; I was told that I could do this as long as I fully manualised the gear box, ie change 1st, 2nd, 3rd manually.

Then I came across this, one of Kdogs older posts

The ECT isn't needed if you aren't using the auto.

If you are using an aftermarket ECU to control the engine you can't use the ECT to control the gearbox. The ECT gets the signals it needs from the ECU not directly from the sensors so it isn't possible to use it. If you still wanted full automatic function then yout could use an ECT from an older car such as a cressida which has an ECT which will take signals directly from the sensors.

The speed signals for the ECT (SP, SP1, SS1, SS2 and SSC) aren't accurate in my diagrams. I will update them when I get a chance. The best way to wire these up to is to replace the speed sensor (20pulses/revolution) with the type that puts out 4 pulses/revolution and wire it to the SP1 input on my diagrams. Please correct me if I am wrong someone as I am going from the top of my head.

Please someone crush my doubt and tell me I can still use this set up.

 

[ALI1UZLUX]

ECT PICTURES

This is the ECT I have that came with the crown box.

 

[sideshow]

thats the right ecu but u might not get it perfect

as 8 or 10 wires from crown engine ecu goto auto ecu so yr stuffed now

throw that ecu away
for 150 bucks i can make u a small unit that will plug onto your crown auto box and when u select 1st it will go into 1st
2nd does 2d and d does 3rd

when u switch unit off u get overdrive

similar to mv automatics shift unit but this is way chjeaper and it actually works
ive had probs with mvs units so they usually end up in buket of water
or under the wheel

u can try using that ecu but at end of day yr wasting yr time if u want things perfect

just fit a shift unit and then u can chagne gears manaully

which i garantee u will get bored off quicly

so what i would do is go for manual 5 speed gbox
it will go even better than ith the auto

trust me

 

[ALI1UZLUX]

thats the right ecu but u might not get it perfect

as 8 or 10 wires from crown engine ecu goto auto ecu so yr stuffed now

throw that ecu away
for 150 bucks i can make u a small unit that will plug onto your crown auto box and when u select 1st it will go into 1st
2nd does 2d and d does 3rd

when u switch unit off u get overdrive

similar to mv automatics shift unit but this is way chjeaper and it actually works
ive had probs with mvs units so they usually end up in buket of water
or under the wheel

u can try using that ecu but at end of day yr wasting yr time if u want things perfect

just fit a shift unit and then u can chagne gears manaully

which i garantee u will get bored off quicly

so what i would do is go for manual 5 speed gbox
it will go even better than ith the auto

trust me

This is my mates car, not mine. He wants it auto.
I explained it to him that he will have to shift gears
manually and he has no problems with that. Besides,
its all fitted up mounted with the tailshaft now, so
its staying auto.

I was told that to use a Pattern switch, as well as
a good electronic Ratio box and I'd be able to fully
manualize the shifting.

Sideshow, this unit you speak of for $150, is this the only thing
I'll need to run the auto box?

 

[sideshow]

yes i have inhibitor plugs for a crown auto here so i can supply u everything
needed

u just have to wire up afew wires

it will even work reverse lights

you do nt need no ratio box i sell ratio boxes and never use them on a manualised auto

 

[devojet]

I have been working on a programable auto controller for my Crown gearbox based on megasquirt hardware. see this thread.

http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9358

I'm using it with a megasquirt engine ecu as well but it could be made to work standalone.

This setup would give you full auto control and the shift points etc will be tunable.

Previouslly I did a lot of research into using the crown ECT computer standalone and I beleive it would be possible but requires a fair bit of interface electronics. I decided it is much easier to build my own controller or just manualise it as suggested by slideshow.

Some of the things required to use the Crown ECT are, divide the speed signal down to 4 pulses, convert the analogue TPS singal into a for wire digital code, plus some other things the engine ecu did but I can't remember now.

Cheers

Daniel

 

[sideshow]

tryin to run non std factory ecus for the exact enigne like 7m auto ecus on crown autos personally i think is a waste of time

get the right parts and wire them up correctly and u will have no probs

pisses me off people buy bits from 5 different suppliers just to save money

anyway

we need more programmable auto controllers

pcs or psc make very very good stuff

their auto controller is the best

and they also make very nice dash display touch screen dash

all this stuff is top notch and marketed and race cars but good for the road

pity most forum users dont spend top dollar
heheheheh

end of day my advice is if u got stand alone enigne ecu

then run a bloody manual gbox

or full manualise the gbox

everyone that asks me bout this type of stuff never has money to do it properly

bottom dollar is no one wants to spend to do it right

im so busy if they dont want to do it right i tell them to go to joe blows down the road

will be good to see how the negasquirt auto controller goes

 

[ALI1UZLUX]

thats the right ecu but u might not get it perfect

as 8 or 10 wires from crown engine ecu goto auto ecu so yr stuffed now

throw that ecu away
for 150 bucks i can make u a small unit that will plug onto your crown auto box and when u select 1st it will go into 1st
2nd does 2d and d does 3rd

when u switch unit off u get overdrive

similar to mv automatics shift unit but this is way chjeaper and it actually works
ive had probs with mvs units so they usually end up in buket of water
or under the wheel

u can try using that ecu but at end of day yr wasting yr time if u want things perfect

just fit a shift unit and then u can chagne gears manaully

which i garantee u will get bored off quicly

so what i would do is go for manual 5 speed gbox
it will go even better than ith the auto

trust me

The Auto unit supplied by sideshow works a treat.
Piss simple too. Straight forward plug in to gear box,
wire to power and neg....Too easy, excellent!

Thank you Jim!

 

[Hooter]

Hey Sideshow, why do you need a gadget to wire up trans?
I have a mate that has nothing connected to his, and he just changes gear manually. He reckons it works good, Ive seen it on hoist and theres nothing. The manuals say there is an override if ecu fails
I'm presently wiring up Delco auto computer to 1uz and A340 and we are modifying software to run auto.
Theres bound to be a few issues while developing software, and while fixing software, I was planning on disconnecting trans and temporarily run manually.....
What do you reckon???

 

[krayn]

I believe Hillybilly has done the delco conversion on his HQ. Sounds like it works well now, but there were lots of problems to overcome to get it working right. Save your self a lot of problems and get an aftermaket ecu that uses standard 1uz sensors and use the tranny as a manuall shifter.

 

[devojet]

Hey Hooter,

You find your mate will only be getting 1st, 3rd and 4th (no 2nd) by shifting manually with no electronics connected to the auto.

Cheers

Daniel

 

[sideshow]

well if there is no electricals connected to the std 1uz auto
then it will go 1st 2 4th
or 1st 3rd 4th

there is one gear not selected when no electricals from what ive come accross

with the price of microtechs these days i dont stuff round with delco ecus
plus have u ever tuned one of these
takes abit longer by time u burn chip and stuff and not many people do tunes for delcos
so when u look at it long term u will pay more for delco than an aftermarket ecu i think

i agree with krayn


goin to wreckers and sourcing delco stuff does not make me money to pay my house and bills
if i did this on the side then i prob would experiment

fittng a microtech in afew hours is much better option
and if anyone is a bloody tight ass i just say ring someone else
they might be cheaper up front but i garantee they will do crap job and u will have spent more over a longer period

i have tried an mv shift box but for some reason it doesnt like some conversion wiring
works ok in std cars but once i tried it and had probs rang em up and no one could help
so i threw the bloody unit in a bucket of water then made my own in an hour

and it has worked for a long time now

 

[sideshow]

devo beat me to it

hehehe

 

[Hooter]

Thanks Guys for response, Sorry I probably should have mentioned when I said modifying software that I'm from Kalmaker and am very involved with Delco systems. (I'm also very familair with aftermarket systems.....)
I helped Hillbilly set his Delco up
Its been a bit of a challenge to me to setup a 1UZ on a Delco, and I first started about 5 years ago, but its been a struggle with time, as my main stream Holden stuff has been psycho for ages.
I started then with a 1UZ in a stand and because the Delco doesnt have the ability to flip flop between the 2 distributors, Ive experimented with different setups, and as you can see on the Kalmaker website I first tried earthing rings that some clown reckoned he was using with 1uz in airplanes. What he meant was he was gunna.........
I did get it running using one of Dicks Electronics conversions boxes, but it wasnt right and it needed 2 V8 holden ignition modules, costing over $1200 just for that (the box and 2 modules)
We also used this on Mikes HQ but it was troublesome.....
Finally another guy told me how he grafted a Ford V8 dissy cap on and it worked fine. I chose the Chev Vortex (Suburban) crap style cap and rotor, designded the adaptors, got Con at CAE (Castlemaine Electrics) to fabricate and first used on Mike's HQ twin turbo 1UZ, along with modified crank trigger (4 tooth instead of 12) and using Holden Camira/Astra/Chev ignition module.
Meanwhile I scored a 67 Mercedes finnie (the model with fins) which my Mrs really loves but with hopeless engine.....but perfect for 1uz.
I spoke with K'Dog way back then about auto and bought a tiptronic gadget off of him. He has been very helpful with auto info so that we can get Delco auto computer to run trans as well.
I probably should have started a new post with this but spotted this thread so started here......
My setup is a Crown and it seems there are a few differences between the yoke type and the others that have the donut for IRS.
I have the Soarer Bible which is different to my trans.
When my mate (no names) showed me his setup, I liked it as it seemed I wouldnt have to use separate K'Dog setup, and just plug my setup in and out as we developed software. He mustnt be aware of gear changes or may have internal mods as I know box has been beefed up......
Things I need to know are
My rear reluctor speed sensor has 32 teeth on output shaft, but instead of the usual 2 wire reluctor, has a 3 wire setup, and has a large head on sensor, (maybe brains) and Ive been told this has a 4 pulse output.
It should be normal sine wave, but it may get modified
Anyone know about this????
Also does anyone know what the hertz range of the solenoids are, in particular the one that Sideshow mentions to leave disconnected, (in another thread) that prevents the antishock for Lockup Converter I believe.
This will be the Pulse Width Modulated solenoid, which switches on gradually (still quick) but not instantly.
The Toyota box is quite basic in terms of electrickery compared to the common 4L60e or more so the 4L80e, and Ken Young that writes Kalmaker software reckons it shouldnt be too hard to get the common VR/VR Commodore PCM (ecu) to not only control the 1UZ engine but also control the trans perfectly.
The thing that simplifies the Tojo trans is the Throttle Cable which controls a few things but in particular line pressure. GM uses a computer controlled Pressure Control Solenoid which opens up all sorts of combinations.
All this computer stuff is fascinating and its really good to see on other threads that guys are doing similar things with the Megasquirt, but as you say Sideshow you can waste a lot of time, and like wise I have family and house to pay for, but this stuff is my passion and i trust that the R&D I put in pays back in the long run. It doesnt always but hey it keeps the brain ticking......
Any help appreciated, and hopefully i can help others later on down the track
Does anyone have any links to the Crown trans???
Regards
Al Gibbs

 

[devojet]

Hi Hooter,

I think you will find this document usefull.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h16.pdf

As for the crown speed sensor, It has a 12V square wave output. I'm still unsure as to the number of pulses per rev but it is a lot more than 4. normally the signal is passed to the speedo first which devides the signal down to 4 pulses for the ECT. I have the pinout for the sensor at home if you would like it.

Cheers

Daniel

 

[sideshow]

i sell small signal divider boxes

they can convet a 2 wire signal into a 3 wire

or anothe runit can convert a 3 wire into a 2 wire signal

both units have minute adjustments in them so if yr speedo is 2 or 3 km per hour out u can adjust it or u can adjust it to a hi ratio too

i have run these when fitting holden v6s into hiluxes and the hilux 3 wire speedo sensor needs to be converted to a 2 wire signal for the holden computer

work a treat but not chjeap

 

[Hooter]

So, just to clarify this, there are 2 speed sensors on the rear of my crown box. One is on a M22 thread and is gear driven and is a 3 wire Hall effect square wave sensor which I wont be using. I will remove this sensor and connect speedo cable to this for the cable driven Mercedes speedo.
The other speed sensor is a magnetic reluctor sine wave, but is unusal as it has a 3 wire connection. Are you guys saying that inside this large head sensor it converts it to square wave. It has a 32 teeth trigger which will work with the Delco but needs to be sine wave.
It would be handy if I could fit an ordinary 2 wire magnetic reluctor to this, similar to the one at the front of trans.

 

[devojet]

AFAIK Both large head 3 wire sensors output a 12V square wave. There are some electronics in the large head that converts the VR signal into the squarewave. I think the Soara gearbox uses the two wire sensors. I will have to look at mine but I'm sure you could adapt a 2 wire sensor in place of the 3 wire. Are you using the one at the front for anything?

Cheers

Daniel

 

[Hooter]

Thanks Daniel, I just found something on Syntax Supra site where the A340e have 2 different types of sensors here.
One for ABS and one without. The one I have is with ABS
It may be that non ABS is a 2wire type
It has different trigger on shaft which looks like it has 2 teeth (hard to tell from drawing)
It may be that I can use non ABS sensor, so long as trigger is same diameter and doesnt contact sensor........
The front sensor has different depth and bore size so wont fit rear.
I think i might start new thread
Cheers
Al

 

[sideshow]

non abs sensors have 1 wire
its signal wire and the earth is thru the case on the sensor

another thing to do is find out how many pulses are on the holden ring inside back of gbox
and hopefully u can make the 32 teeth 1uz one down to match the holden

if running holden auto speed signal sort of needs to be close as it controls the lock up converter