Boosted 1uz ??

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BoostedV8

New Member
Hi my name is Sean and I currently run a single turbo kit on my 97 sc400. Right now the motor is hurt running low compression in cylinder 1. Car still runs and pulls tho. I got a great deal on a used 110k 1uz that came out of a 95 sc400. Motor is clean and upon opening it up I was surprised to see the thicker rods. I knew 95s had the skinny rods but I guess some early 95s came with the thicker rods. My ? Is

How much rwhp can the thicker 1uz motor handle without failure. The trans will be built so not concerned about that. Right now the fuel system is stock other then the walbro 400. We managed to get 350 whp with a bad cylinder but that was with 97% duty cycle. So with a stock block and heads what these motors limit ?

This is what will be installed
1. 95 1uz with new hg, timing system, water pump, tune up kit and re sealed
2. Rx7 550cc ( may go e85)
3. Fpr
4. Egr delete
5. Fan pully delete
6. Re tune with e standalone the car already has.
 
Can't add anything to what Justen has already said.

Emphasis on good conservative tune.
 
I'm not worried about the tune. I have one the best tuners in the country tuning the car. E85 is most likely what ill end up doing tho. If 450 is the safe zone then that's what I'll stop at. I'm going to build the motor I take out of the car also.
 
1uz

With bolt on bits (top manifold, cams ,twin GT30's, coil packs, etc)we have gone 825Hp @ the fly on meth no worries been 12months and in a boat still running , only time we have seen any problems is usually tune damage , they are a very strong engine all round , but in saying that always beta to build it tuff and strong from the start
 
If you are upgrading internals then sky's the limit pretty much.

In stock form the pistons are tough, but they are still designed for n/a with relatively small ring lands...they don't like det or the heat you get from high boost.

450rwhp is a safe figure for the street with a good tune and more than most chassis can handle ;)

You have got some good results with Pracsac's (Joe is it?) capri engine have you Jake? (i assume Bainracing is Jake Bain?). A boat engine has very different demands on it to a car engine though eh? I'd guess less stress as they have better cooling, move a light weight and have less variance in torque demand?

Most my totally stock n/a saw was 550rwhp on E85. It seemed happy enough and had plenty left in the turbos but i had run out of injector. That engine did a HG at one of the standing 1000m events...only the smallest of leaks and i still competed with that engine for another 12 months before deciding to retire the poor thing :)
 
ah i hate no edit button....that was supposed to be "stock engine" not "stock n/a". I was running 17psi at the time on the KKK twins.
 
Hey Yeah its Jake Bain here from Bain Racing , boats are actually way more load , mainly because its like driving in top gear in a car everywhere and using that 800 plus HP all the time , at least with a street car you only tap it now and again, so boats really do just kill engines this was my point that if a boat can do it , a car can no worries , I have heaps of car Lexus setups too,

As most race boat guys will tell you , even building a boat engine for class circuit or bridge to bridge is tuff just ask my good make Paul Madill who now drag races a funny car as well lol too much money that boy ! lol

4-8 minutes full noise , its like doing a full year of drag racing , the engines have to be prepped to a hole new level to what most drag rare engine builds are use to , hence why we don't see a lot of drag race engine builders in the boat game

Massive oil coolers etc , much like a circuit car engine , cooling is much harder believe it or not as 2 mins into a race we see oil temps well over 120c without the right coolers and there valve seat issues , valve thermal overload, and growth factors that just aren't seen in drag racing, the only time its great to have all that water is for a sure cooler which we make for the big 1500-3500HP PSI boats

Another point if you look at the costing too this will show you how much more the boat guys have to spend , say the open 5 litre class , make around 720-750 HP average cost 80 k , now in drag racing for that same hp its more like 30 k, so the quality of parts and load of on the engine plus the time/heat cycle is just so intense.

Even down to the tune , you cannot tune a boat engine as hard as a drag car you have to go ezi with timing and also cost yourself a heap of power by keeping it fat to reduce the chance of thermal overload of parts , you don't really see this in drag racing or any street car for that matter

As the end of the day , cylinder pressure is cylinder pressure so any V8 making close to 900 HP is up there say 600 PSI depending on rod/length/crank ratio this will affect down force pushing on the piston to make x amount of toque , HP is just a calculation from this and the torque is a direct link to cylinder pressure which is a direct link to terminal velocity or peak air speeds , hence why boost has nothing to do with air velocity, one being a measurement of speed and the other pressure , both working independent of each other,

But understanding the math is key this is why all of our engines are computer simulated to calculate all engine stresses, toque and HP just to point out a few basic measurements before we buy a single part , if you even get it a little wrong then cylinder pressures will go from 600PSI to well over 1400 PSI and this is what breaks things , when I did some work with Mark one of the engineers that designed the Rotary valve engine for F1 , we got right into cylinder pressure and EGT, CHT etc as this is how most of the top engines around the world are tuned this way , from pro stock, to nascar, indy and so on.

Its first hand info! by that I mean you can see the smallest of changes in pressure and temp , where when a say Knock meter or A/F its old news and the damaged is done , most engines will not knock unit they get up around 1200 PSI that's game over,its already done damage!! an example was a 632ci big block race boat we logged , 8800 rpm full noise at 0.001 of a second the knock meter went into the red zone , 8 cycles later a rod come out of the block ! lol and the was 0.08 second after !

So I think my point is that its all about the cylinder pressure/temp being right if you can control this then 800-900 hp is ezi and with the right combo, like at our modular combos. Simple things like good injectors cycle times , anything over 80% is just crazy and we have seen A/F look good but our Cylinder pressure waves vs temp is crap ! another important thing is intercoolers , we have done so much testing in the area its just crazy and most of the coolers are wrong , even how companies try to rate a cooler at a set HP ! that so funny its a joke, as simple thermal dynamic calculations shows us this is not true !

And then there simple things , as you were talking about the heat of boost and pistons not liking it , a simple fix to this is more comp and intercooler design and turbo selection, the lower the charge temp and the faster the burn rate the less heat goes into the piston , we have to play with this in the circuit boats its so important

So anyway that's my rave ! lol please people don't take any offence to any of this, this is just what we have found in the 20 years I've been testing and I have been lucky enough to have my finger in the pie in just about everything and got to meet some super smart people around the world, like now I have one of the best piston designers helping me design pistons to move the relative MON number up in an engine, this being for another NA 1UZ E85 engine seeing 625 HP but more development is needed as I want 660-680 HP!

Then there's cylinder head guys like Steve from Cosworth and now for a long while the 4g63 head is on my list as one of the best in this country, as like all of our projects I don't rely on just what I know. I get the right people involved as there's always someone smarter then me lol even from the early day of sprint cars and bridge to bridge , to now getting to travel a bit and work with some dead set legends !!

But what ever goes on on here do not listen the that FOPAR guy ! lol he is nuts ! bahahahaha

But on a serious note I don't think you can brand any engine to a HP limit as there's just to many variables. and we have been told so many times that it cant be done and we do it. I wouldn't stay it to someone else as I understand these variables , even if you look at flash rate /burn rate of fuels this in its own can change how long an engine lives for?
 
Yeah no offence taken Jake, great info and obviously a wealth of experience.

Not having played with boats I just made an assumption based mainly on the much lighter weight....assumption is always risky ;)

My humble efforts are based around being fairly conservative given i don't have access to the techto optimise a setup to such a degree....still I have seen good enough results to surprise a few ;)
 
1UZ boost

yeah no worries ,like I say the more people that do it the beta ! it challenges us all !! like I said im always chasing knowledge and cant never know enough! lol

Some other points of interest !
Even just tuning with a simple EGT can make a world of difference and they aren't big dollars, a lot of people make the mistake to be conservative with a tune ???? so what is conservative I ask ??

Well if you use EGT's you can see straight away that there's optimum timing point at the coldest EGT anything either side of this will increase the chance of damage to the engine . and even 2 degs less then optimum will push EGT up by 200 degs F and is make or break for some engines

Earlier this year I was doing some testing with a friend of my in the US he builds some weapon boost engines 450ic 4500HP ! and the timing is so critical that even 1 deg out can hurt the engine ,

As most of you know , the more power you make you easier it is to break , hence why grandma can ping her std toyota to the cows come in ! lol

the other point of interest that a lot of people don't know about is actual timing fire delay , and variation , by that I mean you put say 24 deg timing @ say 25 PSI @ 7000 , but what are you actually getting ???

we have found that a lot of ECU's on the market and I wont mention as I know there's always some die hard haltech or wolf or mircotech guy that just don't want to know lol

But we have seen up to 10 degs between firing lines ! that is huge ! and as most people can understand and see how this can have a major effect to engine life

would love to what people are making too real world HP if anyone has this sort of stuff thx !
Jake Bain
Bain Racing
 
All sounds reasonable to me and totally agree that engine control wise, ECU are far from equal and engine control is more important than bells and whistles for me.

Results Off the top of my head with the twin KKKs turbos ( hybrid k27/26)

Stock engine/stock inlet/98 fuel
6.5psi - 265rwkw
12psi - 320rwkw
16psi - 400rwkw

Stock engine/short runner intake/98 fuel
11psi - 333rwkw

Stock engine/stock inlet/E85
14psi - 360rwkw
17psi - 411rwkw

Stock engine/M90/98 fuel (still TT as well)
25psi - 378rwkw but low and mid range was epic

Stock engine/m122 SC only/E85
Approx 300 rwkw 17psi

Current setup is a VVTi UZ full build, mild heads. Same turbos on E85. No tune as yet but will try and run 25psi and hoping for 600-650rwkw....time will tell ;)

So some history with having a play I guess :)
 
It's better to go with Cometic head gaskets. If you plan to boost more safely, use slightly thicker head gasket to lower the compression. 460cc injectors from RX7 are all you need in addition to make 450 rwhp. I don't see the need to run e85, but it's up to you.
 
Or any other brand multy layer head gasket. !! E85 is safer on std assembly. Surprising how much extra fuel E 85 in tune before loosing power
 
All sounds reasonable to me and totally agree that engine control wise, ECU are far from equal and engine control is more important than bells and whistles for me.

Results Off the top of my head with the twin KKKs turbos ( hybrid k27/26)

Stock engine/stock inlet/98 fuel
6.5psi - 265rwkw
12psi - 320rwkw
16psi - 400rwkw

Stock engine/short runner intake/98 fuel
11psi - 333rwkw

Stock engine/stock inlet/E85
14psi - 360rwkw
17psi - 411rwkw

Stock engine/M90/98 fuel (still TT as well)
25psi - 378rwkw but low and mid range was epic

Stock engine/m122 SC only/E85
Approx 300 rwkw 17psi

Current setup is a VVTi UZ full build, mild heads. Same turbos on E85. No tune as yet but will try and run 25psi and hoping for 600-650rwkw....time will tell ;)

So some history with having a play I guess :)

378rwkw with an M90? And 300kw with an M122? They ping their heads off after 8-10 psi...

VVTi UZ looks interesting!
 
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378rwkw with an M90? And 300kw with an M122? They ping their heads off after 8-10 psi...

VVTi UZ looks interesting!


No pinging...good tuning ;)

M90 was with TT also :P

M122 ran 16-17 psi with no hint of det on E85 and water/eth injection as the intercooler. It stated out at 270rwkw and with more water/eth topped out around 300rwkw...a weapon to drive but hell noisy on big boost
 


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