Altering the MAF on a sc400 or Soarer?

[jibby]

Tried looking up this topic in SEARCH and found nadda....I am having a discussion with SCV8 about intake flow... What I would like to know since the Mass Air Flow sensor is the most restrictive part of the intake, what can be done to modify the stock one, or is there an aftermarket MAF out their?

I re-did my intake completely even added those air disrupter inserts in the snorkel tub, opened the ouside Air flow passage to the filter under the headlight, did the air filter and injen snorkel tube and didn't notice much HP gains after everything, wondering if somehow opening up the MAF to allow smoother and more air flow is possible and if so will it make a difference?

I noticed when looking down the stock MAF there is a petruding end nut (plug nut) that looks like it may restrict airflow, any suggestions on shaving. I also removed the square screen to see what happened and then started the engine and of course it did not idle correctly so that was a no no. Any suggestion or thoughts as to how to modify the MAF or intake. Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks-

This are some current pic's of my all looks and no performance intake.

 

[Zuffen]

The existing MAF is the largest Karman Vortex unit I know of.

You can't port it or expand its internal diameter or you will disrupt the vortices it works off and become athrowaway item.

You can get an intercepter to allow you to swap from MAF to MAP. Fellow member Damien has one on his Soarer with the intention of going 8 t/b.

 

[elhsupra]

There are a few interceptor options on the market. From the simple SAFC to Perfect power, Split Second, or Greddy Emanage. One option that I am going to start testing is the MAFTPro.
http://www.maftpro.com/
This would allow you the choice of an AFC, MAF Translator, or Speed Density. In addition, this unit has Boost Control, WOT AFR Tracking, an Aux trigger for two different maps, and datalogging. They are also still in the development of timing control. Also, all of their software updates can be downloaded for free. This is a product that some of the MkIII Supras are starting to use with good success. I have been talking with Bob at Full Throttle Speed about using the boost control programming for nitrous control. TPS and window switch are simple and can probably function as a progressive controller using the same function as the duty cycle for the boost controller. I plan to start testing this unit in the next couple weeks and will post feedback as soon as I can for anyone interested.

 

[Peewee]

I'd be VERY surprised if the MAF was more restrictive than the cams.

 

[elhsupra]

I'd be VERY surprised if the MAF was more restrictive than the cams.

I agree, but contray to what some believe, I think the intake cams may be more of the restriction than the exhaust. I did not gain as much as I had hoped from the kelford exhaust cams. One of these days I will take a couple days off from work so I can install the intake cams.

 

[jibby]

Thanks for the input fellas, so the cams should be more of a concern at this stage then the MAF.....

Elhsupra- I am sorry to hear about your dissapointment with your Kelford cams. I am so close to buying a set I cannot even tell you, my car is on blocks for the next three weeks being worked on for many mods and upgrades, so now is the perfect time anyway. Kelford sells nos friendly cams that should generate 40-45hp, is that an accurate statement coming from the owner? What gains did you get with your cams? Was it all top end gains which I assume? In your opinion are the cams worth $1500 - HP vs. $........?

 

[elhsupra]

I wouldn't say I am disappointed in the cams. I guess I just had higher hopes for them. Here were my initial results.
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3705
Please keep in mind that these were not designed specifcally for nitrous but I purchased them anticipating future upgrades. I am sure that the cams were also designed to work with each other also. This is another reason I am anticipating better results when I install the intake cams.

 

[jibby]

13hp that is it? I would be very dissapointed....I understand that they are not the same cams I would get but for that kind of money I would sure hope to gain more then 13hp at high rpm's from any performance cams upgrades. Oh well, thanks for the info......

 

[xirforever]

What about later model 1uz MAFs? I have a 97 SC400 and the maf on that is a lot different on the inside than from the one on my 91 LS400, which one flow better?

 

[jibby]

I don't know have you compared the two or switched to even see if they are interchangeable whichI would dought they are. These MAF's are very sensitive to change like Zuffen said in his post.

I am not even going to try and mess with it unless someone posts to this thread an actual testimony to an MAF alteration that actually worked and had results. It looks like no one has.....but good links to aftermarket hookups, anyway...

 

[SCV8]

I wouldn't suggest that you alter the MAF unless you have some experience with these types of systems.
I really thought I had described what I had done to my MAF in enough detail to accomplish similar results as I have in the PM's we'd exchanged, but if that was not comprehensible, then it's probably better to just stick with what you already know.

 

[jibby]

SCV8- You were very helpful in the pm's and got me thinking about all this, but I just wanted to see if there were any other after market options available. I am not that knowledgeable about this but I am trying to learn. I will take your advise and not mess with the MAF..... Thanks..

 

[Peewee]

Thanks for the input fellas, so the cams should be more of a concern at this stage then the MAF.....

I don't know if I'd go that far.
If you change the cams, you are going to want to do soemthing with the MAF.

I personally wouldn't put a nice set of cams in the motor without doing something with the ecu anyway.
Whether it be a full standalone, or a piggyback that uses MAP instead of MAF.


Basically, on a stock motor, the ecu is the biggest restriction. After you have a more agressive tune, the cams become the restriction. After you have cams (and if you still have the stock MAF), then the MAF becomes the restriction.

Putting a set of nice extractors on when you get cams would be a good idea too.

The ECU will need a retune after you get cams to get the most benefits.

 

[jibby]

Peewee- I am running an Apexi piggy back ECU now on this sc400 and I don't like it because it fouls up my lowend at times, but not sure if it uses MAP instead of MAF. I will be looking at ECU options when my headers go in hopefully within the next two weeks. If I deside to go with the cams then I will be concerned with the MAF, for now from what I am hearing I am good. Thanks

 

[SCV8]

I had looked for a practical way to rid my engine of the MAF, but after I realized it was there for good, I then had begun to try and make the best of it.
Tuning the mixture to perfection again with no easy way to adjust the Unichip myself was trying at times and I had honestly believed that I had junked the MAF when my fuel pressure adjustments weren't working at times.
It took an average of ten days of driving, and carefull adjusting for every time that someting in the intake tract was modified, since the car is in closed loop whenever you've put things so far out of range, and not necessarily responding in a logical manner, but also having to wait(two days) for the OEM ecu to learn the new adjustments for lower engine speeds, then to evaluate how it all works together at all rpms/loads.
In the end, it goes like stink, drives better than ever, and still passes smog with the Unichip bypassed. If I were starting over again, now that I have two small kids, I probably wouldn't be messing with it since it took a lot of tweaking to get right just tuning by ear with the fuel pressure to compensate for the intake/improved airflow mods, and I can't spend that much attention on that stuff these days. Still worlds easier than the sidedraft Webers that I used to mess with twenty years ago though.

 

[Damien]

No offence Jibby but the first thing to do is take the bling intake pipe off and refit the factory item. The factory one has an air reservoir which is a tuned voume and removing it has a negative effect. Years ago in an Aussie magazine called Zoom they dynoed a car with different volumes coming off the intake and the worst was when there was no extra volume. I believe this is only applicable for NA engines.

I've fitted a MAP-ECU to my Soarer replacing the MAF with 90mm diamter PVC pipe and it made a noticable difference for a number of reasons. Firstly it removed some of the intake restriction which meant I had to add more fuel which in turn affected apparent load that the stock ECU used in the ignition lookup table so it's running slightly more advance. Engine response is much more lively because of all that.

As Rod said I'm fitting individual throttle bodies which is now in the final stage.... hopefully the car should be running this weekend if I get some parts I'm waiting on.

 

[jibby]

No offense taken Damien you are absolutely right, my intake is all show and no go....I don't think I lose anything with my intake setup but don't think I gain much either... Probably the best and most cost effective intake is shown and illustrated on the intellexual.net website under intakes.... Simple and sweet...

What do you guys think about the cold box air intakes, and have you guys seen those tiny aluminum fin inserts, I think one brand is called turbonator, you install these fin winged inserts inside the snorkel tube and it is suppose to break up or disrupt the air as it enters the throttle body then somehow creates more hp. They say it is proven to work.. What are your guys thoughts on those silly mods?

 

[Damien]

Cold air is definitely your friend so the better you can seal the intake from the engine bay the more O2 is getting sucked in due to the air being denser. Have you seen the BFI on Planet Soarer? http://www.planetsoarer.com/indexfull.html#BFI

Can't comment on the turbonator things but sounds like BS.

 

[jgscott]

I have a MAF off of a 98 VVTI motor. It goes thru the intake, like the set up for the SRT intake and GS400. The connector is the same but, I have not built a pipe and tried it yet, I wonder if it will read ok with the 97 ECU and 98 MAF ? Anybody know or thought about this before ?

 

[jibby]

The best way to find out is to try it out... You can always call the dealer and ask if the intakes are the same on the two cars.