Lextreme: Lexus-Toyota V8 Forum

Go Back   Lextreme: Lexus-Toyota V8 Forum > V8 Performance Tech > Forced Induction Tech (Members Only)
Custom Search

Forced Induction Tech (Members Only) Supercharged, Turbocharged, NOS, Intercooler, Methanol Injection & Go Fast and None OEM Stuffs.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #221  
Old 01-12-2008, 03:22 PM
kc95sc400 kc95sc400 is offline
5th Grader
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 524
Default

Ok, so I've changed my setup quite a few times and I'm not sure which is best.

Before I go into a whole lot of details on the different setups...when I had removed all the piping to run the above pictured setup, I had found some blockage in the pipes from the SC to the IC. I'd rather not say what it was (too embarrassing) but I assure you it was significant.

Without the intercooler (above setup) my temps averaged 50-60 degrees above ambient temps. Add another 15+- degrees with 6-7 psi. Drivability was great. I had seen 10+ psi on accident at one point. I don't think fuel was an issue but I really didn't see what the AFR was when I hit the 10psi. No problems, keep in mind the ambient temps have been from 50-60 degrees lately.

My ONLY concern with the setup is the high temps. More worried about what they will be in the summer. Otherwise, drivability and throttle response are awesome. Boost very easy to achieve. From everything I have read, 50-60 degrees above ambient is not bad at all. I've seen some people saying that they see temps upwards of 200 degrees above ambient. Do keep in mind that my temps are measured right before the throttle body, not in the manifold, which likely has higher temps.

With the intercooler re-installed....my temps average a mere 12 degrees above ambient. Throttle response doesn't suffer very much. And on a test drive I made 8-9psi. Boost response is slower, boost is harder to achieve. Here's the biggest problem, drivability suffers quite a bit. With the IC and all the piping, the AFR surges rich while coasting. Without the IC, the fuel cut seemed to work great. The shift patterns of the transmission seem to change, for the worse. Without fuel compensation, the AFR is pig rich with boost.

I am very torn on this whole thing. I really preferred the non IC setup as far as drivability, but I was always worried about what the temps were. Plus concerned about what the temps will be in the summer.

Another thing to note, with the non IC setup, my temp sensor was installed into some of the metal piping before the throttle body. With my current IC setup, it's installed into plastic. Heat soak MIGHT be affecting the readings of the non IC setup.

Please, if anyone has any input, suggestions, experience...please let me know. I'm thinking about going back to the non IC setup because the car is more fun to drive.

Thanks,

KC
Reply With Quote
  #222  
Old 01-12-2008, 06:17 PM
RedPhoenix's Avatar
RedPhoenix RedPhoenix is offline
5th Grader
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Posts: 512
Default

That show I plan on doing mine. I would do that and do water injection.
Reply With Quote
  #223  
Old 01-12-2008, 11:49 PM
RedPhoenix's Avatar
RedPhoenix RedPhoenix is offline
5th Grader
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Posts: 512
Default

Didnt see the last post. First off, I think we are all curious to ask what was the blockage?


Anyways. On my setup, I basically planned on running the piping directly to the intake manifold, skipping a intercooler all together. Add water/alcohol injection into the mix and we got some nice low temps with great driveability.


Also, can you snap a few pics of the body mod you had to make for the FISH to fit?

-Matt
Reply With Quote
  #224  
Old 01-13-2008, 12:34 AM
stevechumo's Avatar
stevechumo stevechumo is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: OC, City of Sunshine
Posts: 3,051
Default

Well, if you run more than 9 psi, in theory and my experience is you must have the IC to be safe. Compressed air creates heat. The higher temp will more likely preignite and cause trouble, also with less oxygen and less power. However, since you run the SC set up, it's a lot less heat than the turbo like my set up. Even with the intercooler, a turbo can still cause the heat up to 200 degree like you mentioned. I've seen 250 degree with a turbo system. I'd say 150 degree is still good.

In the past, I experimented the rubber heat hoses at Home Depot and installed them half way in the intake after the IC and guess what, they're almost melted and got so soft. In your set up, 50-60 degree is really good. Keep in mind the heat is also caused by the engine. If you can prevent the engine heat, then you might not need the IC at all.

The reason you see slow boost is due to the piping route. You can actually increase the boost response by using smaller pipes before the IC.
__________________
Single Turbo SC400 15 psi (389 rwhp and +400 rwtq), AEM EMS, Lextreme Hi-Performance Torque Converter, Hi-Performance Built Tranny with Shift Kit, Tein SS Coilover, Supra LCA, Big Brakes, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, LSD, Strut Bar, And Many More.
Reply With Quote
  #225  
Old 01-13-2008, 08:34 AM
scotturnot scotturnot is offline
5th Grader
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: central US
Posts: 519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevechumo View Post
Well, if you run more than 9 psi, in theory and my experience is you must have the IC to be safe. Compressed air creates heat. The higher temp will more likely preignite and cause trouble, also with less oxygen and less power. However, since you run the SC set up, it's a lot less heat than the turbo like my set up. Even with the intercooler, a turbo can still cause the heat up to 200 degree like you mentioned. I've seen 250 degree with a turbo system. I'd say 150 degree is still good.

In the past, I experimented the rubber heat hoses at Home Depot and installed them half way in the intake after the IC and guess what, they're almost melted and got so soft. In your set up, 50-60 degree is really good. Keep in mind the heat is also caused by the engine. If you can prevent the engine heat, then you might not need the IC at all.

The reason you see slow boost is due to the piping route. You can actually increase the boost response by using smaller pipes before the IC.

Wouldnt a good Methanol Injection setup cure this?
__________________
97 SC400 Supercharged, Getrag 6 speed, JIC magic, 20" work Rezax II , JIC FLT-TAR coilovers, TT Brakes, BFI, S & S, 2 1/2" stainless, Magnaflow, LSD 6 speed, Recaro Leather seats and a whole lot more!
Reply With Quote
  #226  
Old 01-13-2008, 10:31 AM
Lextreme's Avatar
Lextreme Lextreme is offline
Just call me "Lex"
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: City of Halos
Posts: 12,046
Default

I dont think Methanol injection would be optimal for a centrifugal system. i would say reduce to a smaller intercooler would help. The whole advantage of having a centrifugal supercharger is intercooling.
__________________

* 1993 SC470TT VVTi - Twin Turbo 4.7L Iron Block at work/Shine Project Body Kit
* 1995 LS520 - 5.2L Stroker with MeisterR Coil Overs and G35 19s
* 1998 GS400 - Daily Stock
* 1995 Previa - Supercharged Previa
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:42 PM
kc95sc400 kc95sc400 is offline
5th Grader
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPhoenix View Post
Didnt see the last post. First off, I think we are all curious to ask what was the blockage?


Anyways. On my setup, I basically planned on running the piping directly to the intake manifold, skipping a intercooler all together. Add water/alcohol injection into the mix and we got some nice low temps with great driveability.


Also, can you snap a few pics of the body mod you had to make for the FISH to fit?

-Matt
No, I don't care to say what the blockage was. Dumbness on my part is all you need to know.

There is no way I could get a good pic of the body mod with the fuse box and supercharger in place. Even with them removed, I'm not sure it would be easy to see what had been done. It's not really a big deal, just be sure to have a couple of hammers and some paint/primer handy when your installing the bracket.

KC
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Picture 015.jpg (85.6 KB, 22 views)
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:47 PM
kc95sc400 kc95sc400 is offline
5th Grader
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevechumo View Post
Well, if you run more than 9 psi, in theory and my experience is you must have the IC to be safe. Compressed air creates heat. The higher temp will more likely preignite and cause trouble, also with less oxygen and less power. However, since you run the SC set up, it's a lot less heat than the turbo like my set up. Even with the intercooler, a turbo can still cause the heat up to 200 degree like you mentioned. I've seen 250 degree with a turbo system. I'd say 150 degree is still good.

In the past, I experimented the rubber heat hoses at Home Depot and installed them half way in the intake after the IC and guess what, they're almost melted and got so soft. In your set up, 50-60 degree is really good. Keep in mind the heat is also caused by the engine. If you can prevent the engine heat, then you might not need the IC at all.

The reason you see slow boost is due to the piping route. You can actually increase the boost response by using smaller pipes before the IC.
From what I have gathered, my temp increse is very good compared to some setups. About 50 degrees over ambient. With 7ish psi, it is only going up another 15 degrees or so.

My setup with the IC has always been 2.5 from the supercharger to the IC and 3inch from the IC to the throttle body. I couldn't see going much smaller than the 2.5 inch.

KC
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:48 PM
RedPhoenix's Avatar
RedPhoenix RedPhoenix is offline
5th Grader
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Posts: 512
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc95sc400 View Post
No, I don't care to say what the blockage was. Dumbness on my part is all you need to know.

There is no way I could get a good pic of the body mod with the fuse box and supercharger in place. Even with them removed, I'm not sure it would be easy to see what had been done. It's not really a big deal, just be sure to have a couple of hammers and some paint/primer handy when your installing the bracket.

KC

Fair enough Im assuming the bracket hits the body. happy hammer time
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 01-13-2008, 08:08 PM
kc95sc400 kc95sc400 is offline
5th Grader
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 524
Default

OK, so I've spent another weekend playing with my car. Pipe routing in particular.

After running the non IC setup for a few days, I decided to re-try the IC setup since I had removed my blockage problem.

Impressions.

Non IC setup #1. SC outlet (2.5 is the SC outlet size) into 3inch piping to the MAF, 3inch piping from the MAF to the throttle body. Great throttle reponse and boost comes much easier and quicker. 50 or so degrees above ambient without boost, another 15 degrees or so with 7psi. Ran great and fun to drive. The piping was not quite straight across and did sit in front of the radiator a bit. Great driveability.

IC setup (after blockage removed). 2.5 inch piping to the intercooler, 3 inch from the IC to the MAF, from the MAF to the throttle body I used the stock intake tubing with the resonator section removed. Also, I used a silicone coupler in place of the factory coupler that joins the stock plastic intake to the MAF. Less boost and much harder to get boost. 12 degrees above ambient without boost. Slight increase in temp with boost. Less throttle response, but not too bad. When coasting, the AFR would go rich and flucuate a bit. Rich miss at idle at times. Driveability not nearly as good as the non IC setup.

Non IC setup (current). 2.5 inch piping from the SC outlet. Goes from 2.5 to 3 inch right before the 90 that turns into the MAF. 3 inch piping from the MAF to the throttle body. I have a bunch of spare 2.5 inch couplers, so I installed them onto the exposed 2.5 inch pipe, figured they may block some of the heat. The path from the SC to the MAF is much straighter across and pretty much above the fan shroud. I have not driven the car with this setup as of this post, but I assume it will be about the same as my first non IC setup. Hopefully with a little less heat due to the spare couplers on the exposed pipe. Also, the 2.5 inch pipe has less surface area to absorb heat. Boost response may be slightly better due to the smaller diameter pipe. I would expect this setup to work well, I already have a concern though, even though I have yet to drive it. I pulled it out of the garage and let it warm up, ran fine. When it was fully warm and the idle dropped down, it started missing a little, and actually stalled once.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1UZFE Soarer engine into a HQ Holden Craig Swap, Conversion, Transplant, Specialty Vehicles & Project Diary (Members Only) 0 02-09-2006 09:37 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.